Moody: [You grew up in] Tuolumne, is that right?

Rozier:  [That’s right].  The original name was Summerville.  But the uh….the family with the name Summers came here in about 1850.  The first child… their first son was born John Summers and was born here in 1851.  And they, uh, went mining on the creek and, uh….the uh… other people came and a settlement was formed.  And now….uh…. Especially around the mine that was called the Eureka Mine which was….oh…. Was before [it] really grew.  And they wanted to call the settlement ‘Elizabethville’.  This was Summers, but she insisted that it be named for the whole family and it was named Summerville.  The people of Summersville used to get their mail in Soulsbyville.  It would come first in Sonora then come on the….the, uh….. Go as far as Soulsbyville.  And someone from there would bring it over.  But as [Yosemite?] grew and some mines were…. were working, they decided (that) they needed a post office of their own.  But then there was an S-O-M-M-E-R-ville across the county so they couldn’t name the office ‘Summerville’.  So we’d give them the name ‘Carters’ after C. H. Carter who had an old store here.  And, uh, Carters was quite a large community.  There were uh…. I think it was one of these self-contained places that had….had…. Just about everything that was, uh, that was needed: the dry-goods stores, the grocery stores, the [wax?] makers, and millers, and uh….

Moody:  --You had your own hospital, right?

Rozier:  No; the hospital came in until later when they uh….. Remember when the county came in?  But there were doctors here in the early days.  And, uh, it could be that uh…. There were no automobiles and everybody made their own entertainment.  It was, uh… they had uh… they had their own bands and orchestras so uh…. Those kinds of organizations.  Then they had….they had, uh…. The baseball team…. Their football team--

Moody:  --With their highschool?

Rozier:  --Not yet, no.  And they had their own…. Own Summerville elementary school; the Summer Public School, it was called.  At the start of it, it was a one-room school to begin with, with just one teacher and….uh… there weren’t many students.

Moody:  Where did the children go to high school?

Rozier:  There wasn’t any highschool, even in Sonora back in the beginning, you see.

Moody:  --Oh, I see

Rozier:  So they...they went [at it?] as long as they could--

Moody:  --Through the ninth grade?

Rozier:  Yes, maybe into the tenth grade.  And, uh, as long as their uh…. Many of them had to go to work to help support (their) families.  And, uh--

Moody:  --About what date would this… would this be when there still wasn’t a highschool even in Sonora?
Rozier:  I think the highschool in Sonora was built around 1906.

Moody:  --1906?  Hm.  And, uh, this was when it was mostly mining here; this is before the lumber people came in?

Rozier:  Yes, that I am speaking of just now.  But the…. then, uh, of course when the lumber people came in there were so, uh, many, many, more children.  And they had to add-on and make-shift until….uh...a larger school could be built, and that was about 1905 or 1906. I have the recordings with [Schiefele?].  She began teaching here in 1900 and she had, uh--

Moody:  --[She had a one, then?]?

Rozier:  --She had….well, no there were….uhm….. Two teachers there:  [She] and Mr. Gallagher.  [I taught them?].  And, uh, when all this influx of students came in…. You’d be interested in listening to her tape because she tells so many things that happened during that time.

Moody:  Now this is from the lumber… the lumber mills--

Rozier:  --This is when the lumber mill.  I mean, even the, uh, lumber company came in and bought the land and started to get ready for operation.  Then they bought a hold--a train load--of people from Michigan and Wisconsin, on the, uh, special train to…..uh…. To town.  And, uh, the town was still Carters and uh, the….even the railroad came, in 1898, it came as far as...uh… Sonora then on up to Tuolumne.  In 1896 it was only as far as Jamestown.  But the, uh, the opening of the lumber company was going to [knee?] the railroad the rest of the way.  And so it was, uh,.... This was the end of the road; the train came and stayed all night and in the morning.  And they had...uh…. These people who came--they came in boxcars--they had stoves and ways of cooking and all.  And they had, in the cars, uh…--

Moody:  --And they came from where?

Rozier:  They came from uh, Michigan and Wisconsin; Manistee, Michigan, and [Manistique?], Michigan, and…..and, and uh…..[Afton?], Wisconsin--

Moody:  They had ways of cooking right on the car?--

Rozier:  No, they had stoves, you see, and they brought their materials along.  And I have a nice tape recording with Agnes, uhm, [Bischoff-Groß].  Her mother had the, uh, had the hotel here and, uh--the Yosemite houses, it was called--and the, uh…. Men from the lumber company had to ask her to have extra food and extra beds because this train was coming in and they didn’t know how…. many would be wanting accommodations.  So they said (that) they worked and worked and borrowed mattresses and cots and had…. Had the hotel all ready and extra food and everything in.  And they came and nobody came up.  And she, her mother couldn’t understand why.  And when they saw across the mill pond all these… the smoke from all these fires…. And the people had stopped over there.  They didn’t have money for staying at a hotel so they had built campfires and were cooking their meals out over the fires out over the hillside.

Moody:  --Was it just families or was--

Rozier:  --This was families.

Moody:  This was families that came with them.  Then what did they do?  Did the company arrange for kind of some housing or anything?

Rozier:  Yes, there was a house [for?] the company.  The company built quite a few houses.  And the, uh [dingles?] they had… There were several streets where they put these houses.  Those… the ones that go down I think on Willow Street closest to the mill.  Uh, they have…. They are still standing.  They had been painted by [white with the cetera?].  And then on Oak Street they had a stretch of houses that were painted red and that was the red row.  And then up on Maglow Street there were a group of houses painted yellow and that was the yellow row.

Moody:  What was the nationality of most of these people?  Were they like Italians?  Scandinavian?--

Rozier:  Most of the--those who came--not [?] but many of them that came from Wisconsin and Michigan were of Scandinavian descent.  But there were many others who were… who weren’t… they, uh, came from Greece and other types…

Moody:  What kind of impact did that have on the community?  I mean, how did people feel about this influx?

Rozier:  Well, they knew that all of this… that all of this was the new town that was being built out here.  And this was called ‘New Town’.  I don’t remember all of this because it was before my time of being a… a culturesome--

Moody:  --A matured….

Rozier:  --Yes.  As I said before, they named it ‘New Town’ and, uh….uh--

Moody:  ‘New Town’ was primarily [older?]?

Rozier:  --Yes, as we were still mining.  And, of course, the lumber company built their big….. Store building here and, uh, they had their general store.  And then up, up above was the hospital and the doctor’s office--

Moody:  --And evidently a dance hall.

Rozier:  And then, of course, that burned--the top story burned--and then the rest was just as [leave?]....  Much later, [Iwonkida?] became the post office, the butcher shop, and the general store.

Moody:  Is there any kind of… company...company town; company store mentality?

Rozier:  The um, the um…. The [craft-of-world?] evidently ran the store at first, and I suppose--before the company--I don’t…. know just what, but I do remember that my uncle Bill worked for the company.  He never was, uh, in the mines.  Of course my father was a millman for the [Gold?] mills.  But, um...my uh….. The people who worked for the company had to trade at the store.  And, as I recall, their grocery bill was taken out of their wages before they received their paychecks.

Moody:  --When the unionizing thing was kind of sweeping the country, did that…. Did that, uh, have any effect up here in the lumber mines (sic) and--?

Rozier:  --Yes.  Of course the mines had their union for a long time before, yes.  And the, uh….--

Moody:  Was there much conflict about the unions?

Rozier:  Well, uh, the uh…. Some of the people wanted the union for uh…. The lumber company.  And other people didn’t.  And I remember--I was ten--and we were to have a debate in school about the eight-hour law.  Now I guess, uh, it wasn’t the union yet--the lumber company--it was just the eight-hour law because it wasn’t, uh…. There was uh… [There was labor restrictions] before there was a union.  And uh…. I….. [Sigma Kimbell?], who was Missus Bischoff’s niece, the lady who had the hotel, uh…. She was a chairman of our side of the debate.  She chose me to be on it with her.  And I can remember very distinctly going home and saying that we were going to have a debate on the eight-hour law and that I was on Sigma’s side; and I was against it.  My father immediately told me I would get no help from him--

Moody:  --Because he was for it?  Was this for the mines or--?

Rozier:  --No, this was for the lumber company.  They wished to put twelve hours on the…. At the, uh, lumber company.  And they--

Moody:  --Do you recall any violence in their unionizing activities from the mines or from the lumber mill?--

Rozier:  No.

Moody:  --You don’t; no, no.

Rozier:  And they…. And I can remember it….  Even [McGibbon] was on the other side of the…. For the eight-hour law and her father was in the mines.  And she had a very nice speech.  And I can remember the end of it.  “Eight hours for work, eight hours for play, and eight hours sleep is a workingman’s day.”

Moody:  --Yes, that’s a [good one].

Moody:  What about the…. You were saying that...that Carters at that time was so self-contained.  What about the fraternal organizations?  I noticed as I came into town there’s a Lion’s sign.  Did you say--

Rozier:  --There were (sic) no such thing as Lion’s back in those days.

Moody:  --Yeah, but there were a whole host of fraternal--

Rozier:  Oh yes they were.... There were a, uh, a…. [Venezuelos?  Mendez-Oelos?] and them.  In fact most of the… of the fraternal organizations had both women….. Women and men…. Parts to them.  There were the Knights of the Maccabees and the Ladies of the Maccabees, the Native Daughters of the Golden West, and the Native Sons of the Golden West, the, uh, [Woodmen] of the World and the Women of Woodcraft, the Tippean Sisters and the, uh….. What was it called?.... There was another besides the….!  The Modern Woodmen and the Circle of the Forest, I think was there.  It was their corresponding… organization.  And, uh, there were ever-so many; they were--they are listed in a good many of them in the old newspapers there was something-- There were [odd-galls?]:  So the Rebeccas, and, uh, um…. The, the um…. [as they called] it in the early days, the Masonic Order was in Sonora, but I don’t…. I don’t remember just when it started here.

Moody:  Most…. Most social activity and… and commercial activity and everything else stayed right here [when it populated]?

Rozier:  They had their own…. Everybody made their own entertainment and they were of course….uh… lots of different groups giving plays; there were the dancers--

Moody:  --I was curious about that.  Did you have plays coming like the [Jitaku?]?

Rozier:  --That was later.

Moody:  You did have this, but you did have people--troupes who got up this far to [interview?]--

Rozier:  --In the, uh…. I can--I can remember, uh, Uncle Tom’s Cabin arriving.  And seeing the bloodhounds on the street as I was coming home from school and being scared to death.  And of course we didn’t get to see the play because we didn’t have the money.  But, uh, there were…. There were different ones.  Because this was after…. After, uh, Newtown was well established.

Moody:  When you went…. When you went out of town, how did most people travel then?  Did they go by buggy as far as the train and then go on train to--

Rozier:  Well they walked to the train.

Moody:  No, I mean before, when you were…. When you were very young…. When you were very young…. Was the train?-- Because I remember you saying that you --that you could remember what an adventure it was [to go to] Sonora.  Did you go by train?

Rozier:  By train, but very seldom.  My, uh, my folks took me to San José... and Benicia by train, uh, but I don’t remember that; I was too small.  And then I remember going down to Sonora by train to a…. Fourth of July celebration in Sonora.  Of course, walking from the station in Sonora to, uh, Bradford’s Pavilion--which is where the Courthouse parking lot is now--and having, uh, their… They had their [celebrate?] and their speeches and everything in the pavilion.  I don’t recall any… any [racing?] like we have here but there may have been.  And, uh…. Then the next one I went to in Sonora we went to the… by the autostage.  [We made it there] by eight-o’clock in the morning the diamonds who had the [liquor-staple?] had… have a large car that they used as --for passengers to go back and forth to Sonora after the…. There was a big [ligorstable?] here and everybody travelled with (sic) horse and carriage in the earlier days.  And then, when the automobile came along why they had this stage… I remember calling it a stage and I still call it a stage [but they’re autobuses]--

Moody:  --That’s interesting

Rozier:  And, uh… we went to… to a…. Fourth of July celebration.  And my goodness, I think we were up half of the night getting ready for our trip to Sonora.

Moody:  Did the train just, like, leave in the morning and come home at night?

Rozier:  Yes it went up in the morning from Stockton--it went all the way to Stockton, you see-- and then back again.

Moody:  And was this the same train that brought the mail in?  And you were, uh--

Rozier:  --They had a baggage car and the mail car--

Moody:  --Right, right.  You were about….what, eleven years old when your father became [the] postmaster?

Rozier:  Yes.  I [wasn’t] quite that; I was still ten.

Moody:  Didn’t you say that the whole family sort-of had to gear their lives around--

Rozier:  --Well, we didn’t…. My father and mother…. Worked there when they were there first.  And then, um, Burt [Rodgers?] who had work for the…. Proceeding, uh…. Postmaster worked with him for a while.  And, um, [he] got them really started and then later on he went to work for the bank in Sonora.  But, um--

Moody:  --Their hours were really [well-off] weren’t they?

Rozier:  Oh goodness me they’d be there in six-o’clock in the morning because the mail had to go off on twenty-minutes-of-seven on the train and you had to have everything ready for that.  Besides [you] had to build a fire to keep going by.

Moody:  --And that was seven days?--

Rozier:  --That was seven days a week.  And then the train came in at night any time…. The closing time for the Post Office was seven o’clock at night for many, many years.

Moody:  But everybody came to pick-up their own mail?

Rozier:  Everybody came-in and everybody…. And um...um, uh… On nights when the train was late the post office lobby would be full of people waiting.  And, uh, the noise of their talking was sometimes rather distracting when you were trying to do things.  But, uh, always--no matter what time the train came in, whether it was nine o’clock at night or one o’clock in the morning--we all had to be there.  I mean, we had, as I remember…. As I was older--I didn’t work there until I was in highschool--but, uh…--

Moody:  --oh [?]--

Rozier:  It was worth…. I could write a whole book on the Post Office because it was mostly a, uh… just happy years of your life.

Moody:  Was it during your father’s or your mother’s [tenures] as a postmaster that the train went off the tracks that you were telling me [about a long time]...?

Rozier:  Oh, that was the lumber company’s.  The lumber company’s….used to haul a thing of mail down and it was…. The logging train that ran over the bag.  That was my mother’s… My mother’s time.

Moody:  And how did you resolve that?  I forget [how you?]...?

Rozier:  We had to… revolve it the best way we could.  I...I couldn’t get the money orders and things written go up on the train that morning because so many --so much of the material was in ribbons.  But we, uh… even the fifty-cents and the dollar pieces were…. Were, uh, had curves in them--

Moody:  --And they...It was actually run over by the train?--

Rozier:  Um-hum.  And I don’t know how many cars were ran over, but I mean…. And they were loaded with logs so the train --the, uh, thing that ran over them have… it may have only a [billow?] or a car that did it.  But, uh--

Moody:  --Did it pay you very well --this postmaster?

Rozier:  Well, when my mother took [it]; when my folks took it…. The, uh, salary was eight-hundred dollars a year.  And, uh, I believe we, uh….. Assistant was seven-hundred.  Er, uh, I don’t think it was that much to begin with.  And then they had to pay… anybody extra out of their own… pocket.

Moody:  [That’s why] the whole operation; even the employees had to be paid [when 1800?].  Was it…. Was that...sliding even at that time?

Rozier:  It was, uh, 1915, you see, when they took over.  In 1918, when World War I came along --1917, when World War I came along.  And, uh, everybody’s salary was raised except the postmaster's because that was the early salary, you see?  And the kids and the boys and, uh --highschool kids had to go and work in the shipyards for ten dollars a day.  And the prices of everything went sky-high.  We went through our deepest depression during World War I.

Moody:  Was there much, uh….Was there….I know it was quite a feeling against, uh, foreigners and what they called ‘hyphenated Americans’ during World War I.  Was there that feeling in, uh… in Tuolumne?

Rozier:  In Tuolumne we had people of all different nationalities here.  And, uh...uh… our… German friends were [financially] concerned about people (back) at home; their people who were still in Germany.  And, uh, they were not supposed to talk about it or to--

Moody:  Was there…. Was there any feelings against the German residents here--?

Rozier:  No, because they were far away from that… The War was far away from us that--

Moody:   Because I know that some… some places in the country, you know, they, they really persecuted the--

Rozier:  But they stopped…. And they stopped the teaching of German in the highschools.  And the, uh… the old Algebra teacher who was German--Elizabeth [Hoss?]--and she was, um, quite perturbed because they wouldn’t uh…. I think that they were… There had been a ruling that there was to be no writing in German and she had to write…. Her mother was still living, but her [delicurs?] in Germany, you know, her mother couldn’t speak English--

Moody:  --She had to write to her in English--

Rozier:  --And, uh, so things like that were very trivial.  They made so much of things that didn’t um… They didn’t have any bearing on small-town things.

Moody:  Well I know in larger areas that had a lot of…. They had marches and they had a lot of things and I just wondered.  Where there… Have there ever been any blacks in Tuolumne or…?

Rozier:  Not many.  The, uh, hospital had John Caroll, who was the cook, a very fine Negro man…. And Napoleon Bonaparte’s son, who was [Moran McDonald?]’s uncle, if you know Moran McDonald in Sonora.  The [?] a very old and highly respected Negro family in…

Moody:  [A ward] in [Hailey’s Circle?] who was indeed--

Rozier:  And he, uh, Mr. [Seht?] was always called [Pulley?]’s son and John Caroll and they both worked at the hospital.  And there was, I believe his name was Kenny.  He was here for quite some time, but when the Indian reservation was started, I remember he spent most of his--I mean he had cattle over there--but because they weren’t welcomed--

Moody:  When was the Indian Reservation started?

Rozier:  About 1912, I think it was.

Moody:  Did you… would you have been going to school with Indian children?

Rozier:  We always --Well, we always had Indian children here.  It was the Indian children who were here and those who were brought over from the Groveland area.  But there never was any feeling.

Moody:  Even in the [highschool] there was no social discrimination?

Rozier:  Oh no, they were here (and) we all grew up together.  And, uh, you know we don’t have those things unless somebody puts the idea in your head.

Moody:  You had quite an Italian community.  Now did they work mostly in the lumber mill?

Rozier:  Yes, they worked…. And many of them were, uh--albeit some of the Cherokee up here were--and in [Crosbyville?] there were lots of Italians here; there were many Italian families from there….. Oh, the Italian people were the agricultural... men.  They worked for--

Moody:  That’s one thing I [wanted to] ask you about.  We were talking about how self-sufficient and self-sustaining Carters and then, um, Tuolumne became.  Did a lot of people grow their own food?

Rozier:  --Yes--

Moody:  Their own livestock and the whole thing; kill their own chickens and have--

Rozier:  Most everybody had a feed and a cow and their chickens and…

Moody:  So you were bringing in very much--

END TAPE

Interviewer: Bonnie Moody
Interviewee: Marie Rozier
Name of Tape: Miss Marie Rozier on Old Tuolumne
When: 1971
Transcriber: John P Hire
Transcribed: 1 April 2020