DYER: Recorded project of the history of Columbia Junior College is being conducted by Richard L. Dyer. This tape includes a series of interviews with the people who were instrumental in the initial planning of the college during its formative years.

DYER: The first interview is with Doctor Walter M. Garcia. Dr. Garcia was superintendent of the Yosemite Junior College District during the 1968-1969 academic year.

BEGIN RECORDED INTERVIEW – tape was probably spliced here

RICHARD DYER: Dr. Garcia, it is indeed a pleasure to take some time and to speak with you about the formative years of Columbia Junior College. When did it become evident that a second junior college was needed for the district?

DR. GARCIA: It’s difficult to pinpoint a date when that became obvious. Columbia started out, as I recall, at about the time we formed the Yosemite Junior College district in ’64. It was felt by the members of the administrative staff – I can’t identify which member of the staff or which ones of us came to the same conclusion, which I think is an interesting comment on how we ran things – decided it might be a very good idea for the college to acquire some property in the Mother Lode area, part of the Yosemite District. And to use it primarily for – although we were vague initially – use it primarily for a retreat house for the faculty – if you will a vacation home in the mountains kind of thing. Because we knew that there was a great deal of land available in that area, and we knew as an educational institution we would qualify for it. From that point on we talked more and more in terms of using the facility perhaps as an extension center of Modesto Junior College, for the conduct of specialized programs, like geology as an example, where field trips were an integral part of the program.

DR. GARCIA: And then we were committed as a matter of principle to the notion of offering instruction in all areas of the district, at least where it seemed to be feasible. And if my memory doesn’t fail me, I think we still were offering classes in Sonora even before the Yosemite District was formed, because it was open territory. This was done partly politically – to allow the people of Tuolumne County to see that the college had something to offer. We began to see then, as our offerings expanded in Sonora and in Tuolumne County, that we might need a better facility. A more comprehensive facility than we had initially thought. I would find it very difficult and I’m sure impossible to say at what point the notion of the creation of a separate Columbia Junior College emerged. I would find it very difficult to define the date, but it probably was ’65 or ’66, I would guess, because when we went to the taxpayers in the fall of ’66, for an override tax to build the Columbia campus and improve the Modesto campus, we were then making a proposal to create a full-scale college. So it must have been in ’65 or ’66, that the plans that began to emerge. It was a kind of evolutionary formation. The initial idea was very conservative, very modest. And as time went on, however, we – the Board of Trustees was increasingly persuaded that they needed to do more than just offer even just a satellite campus in Tuolumne County, but to offer – to be sure, on a small scale, but nonetheless – a comprehensive junior college, the kind of program in Tuolumne County. And when I went back for the dedication ceremonies last year, I must confess that magnificent campus was far more ambitious in terms of architecture, I dare say, and concept than the ideas we were kicking around at the administrative level five years ago, when we were thinking quite modestly. I might add in passing, I’m satisfied that the evolution was a healthy one and a good one and a productive one. There was some resistance to it on the Board, the notion of developing Columbia as a separate campus, but I would say six out of the seven members of the Board were most enthusiastic about it, and were encouraging and supportive to the concept of offering a full-scale college. In fact if my memory serves me right, at some points along the way I may have been the cautious, conservative one, warning the board that one simply cannot wave one’s hand and create a college, and saw the problems of financing a two-campus district very easily, very quickly. But the board, with their usual tact and firmness kind of pressed staff to really do this right. And let’s have a really fine school, let’s not have some kind of runt dependent of Modesto Junior College.

DR. GARCIA: So it grew, like topsy –well, not like topsy because that suggests a lack of planning. It wasn’t lack of planning, we planned very carefully as we went along, but the more we planned the more we saw that a full scale campus was inevitable. I suppose the primary reasons are – were the obvious ones. Students from Tuolumne County were traveling enormous distances to come down to Modesto junior college, which I remember talking to a girl from – I guess she graduated from Summerville High School – just one case sticks out in my mind, I had many other such conversations – But she lived up in, even further back in the hills, and Summerville High School was the nearest large structure, I guess, for many miles. And that poor child had to get up about five in the morning or something and get down into someplace close to where our buses were running, and get on that bus at 6:30 or thereabouts, I guess, and repeat the process going home in the afternoon. Sometimes she would not get home until seven or eight o’clock at night. Quite clearly this was a tremendous burden.

DYER: I understand some of them had 200 miles a day.

DR. GARCIA: Yeah.

DYER:  By bus.

DR. GARCIA: I’m sure that’s true. A good many of the Tuolumne students were coming down into Modesto and trying to rent rooms and so on, but in general it was a great struggle. So certainly the factor of providing a college campus in closer propinquity to the students of Tuolumne County and Calaveras County was a factor. I think a second factor – and it may be perhaps in the minds of the staff even more compelling – was the exciting notion of developing a new college. Modesto Junior College, an excellent institution of its kind, rather middle-aged, shall we say, and showing some hardening of the arteries in some way. The notion of being able to do something using current educational philosophies and methodology was also really kind of part of it. We were excited at the prospect of developing a mountain campus.

DR. GARCIA: So I believe there were two matters. The matter of distance, the excitement of trying to develop a new institution, a institution dedicated to … ??? beginning to experimentalism and innovation, although those are much-abused words. And too, a feeling that we could, that is the college district could provide a real service in Tuolumne County, because we were not thinking only of the young people. We were thinking of the many older people in the area who had no access to collegiate education, to speak of. And we were sufficiently sensitive to what a good community college can do in serving the whole broad spectrum of age groups in the community – what we felt that if we had a more convenient facility, many, a much higher proportion of people would be going on to college than was the case prior to Columbia. These were all factors.

DYER: What was the attitude of most of the local residents – people in Stanislaus County? Did they initially support the move for a new college in the district?

DR. GARCIA: There was never, frankly, a great deal of reaction much one way or the other. I think there were perhaps one or two mutters in the Bee over a period of time, questioning whether it was necessary to build a campus that far away, raising the question would it not be better to spend more money on the Modesto campus and things of this kind. But there was also sentiment on the other side concerning the desirability of having, for the people in Modesto, a college campus up at Columbia. Because I remember some of my friends who had children coming to the college age, and his kids wanted to go away to school, you know. Going away to school has a big attraction to most kids. And the people in Modesto were saying well, if we can send them at least as far away as Columbia then we’ll satisfy what the young people want, and we’ll give them a different kind of experience than they’d get down in the Valley. I would say on the whole, there was no very strong reaction in Stanislaus County pro or con. There was no great argument about the notion of developing a second campus. During the campaign ??? as I recall, the tax election campaign. I think most people obviously didn’t – very few people close to articulate anything about it – I would assume that most people thought that well, this was kind of a logical progression. The Modesto site was small, we were crowded, parking was an abomination – and so they probably thought well, okay, these guys on the Board, they know what they’re doing, they think we can use a campus up there – well, it’ll be a pretty campus, wouldn’t cost too much so it’s OK, let’s go.

DYER: What about the residents in Tuolumne County? Did they initially support the college?

DR. GARCIA: Yes, pretty enthusiastically as I recall. The leadership of the community – old people that were active in the Historical Society and the city council and the county planning commission and so on were very enthusiastic, probably for quite different reasons. As a matter of fact, I do not recall hearing any negative comments about the prospect of the college developing in Tuolumne County from people in Tuolumne County, with one exception – I thought this was rather amusing – The year after I had left to come down here to southern California, we went back up during Christmas vacation and Dusty took us on a tour of the campus which was then in the process of being developed. We ran into a PG&E ditch tender, I guess he was, or an employee anyhow. And I don’t know whether he was serious or not, he was muttering about bringing up all these damn hippies to Tuolumne County, you know, which would inevitably result from the college campus. Hippies and pot-smokers and group sex and things of this kind. But I’m really not sure whether he was very serious. In general, the attitude in Tuolumne County insofar as I heard it was very positive toward the idea of the college and they could obviously see some great advantages to Tuolumne County and its people.

DYER: As Superintendent at the time, did you spend a lot of time at the local service clubs speaking with people about the proposed extension of the Yosemite Junior College District?

DR. GARCIA: I can assure you I did – for almost a year I think I did nothing else. ???. We knew we had a very ambitious proposal in the reform of the junior college district, and then consequently the development of Columbia. And we organized a very extensive campaign. And it was characteristic I think of our junior college district that our staff was always trying to be out in the community and speaking to people. And so I must have spoken – I was on the road ??? ??? circuit. I think the whole time I was in Modesto, but particularly intensively before the campaign and as we were developing the Columbia campus. I remember one night during the campaign I went to a meeting of the service club just above – I think this was in Twain Harte, just above Sonora. I brought along with me Phil Swernge, who was our student body president at Modesto Junior College, and was a resident of Tuolumne County. Very fine young man. I think one of my staff people had spoke to a service club audience composed of I’d say 30 to 35 younger men, all of whom were looped to the ears. It was an evening meeting, and they were kind of a raucous and rowdy crew in many ways. That kind of sticks out in my head because I gave them my best and impassioned pitch, and they sat there looking at me very fishy-eyed, or bleary-eyed as the case might be, and I obviously was not making any points with them. ??? think they were on synthetic or ??? They ??? have a hell of a good time. And they weren’t particularly interested in somebody coming to talk to them about education and plans for the area. When I finished, one member of the club looked up, cocked a bloodshot, bleary eye at me and said, “Hey, what did you do before you became a college president?” And I was at that time sufficiently irritated and agitated I said, “I used to be a pimp.” And that broke the club up and Phil Swernge laughed so hard he actually fell off his chair. I tell that story to illustrate some of the rigors of campaigning in general – service clubs and community organizations, farm organizations and so, were highly supportive. Both of the proposals – to form the Yosemite Junior College District and second to develop Columbia.

DYER: Just for a moment, Dr. Garcia, will you take some of you time and summarize some of the original plans in the – first, the location of the college?

DR. GARCIA: I can’t rely on my memory – I recollect – that’s the appropriate term to use I suppose when we’re talking about the great outdoors. I recollect tramping over the hills of Tuolumne County with various members of the staff, and people from the Bureau of Land Management looking at various possible sites. Again, initially we were thinking rather modestly about what our needs were. I also remember rather vividly one very rainy day which must have been in the fall, but I don’t even remember, to be precise, riding in the back of a battered pickup truck driven by the Bureau of Land Management official who was very helpful to us, and coming down the road and over the hill and seeing the San Diego Reservoir. I recall that Don Brady kind of steered us toward the San Diego Reservoir. He knew about it and it was kind of a favorite swimming hole for the area. I think other people from Modesto were simply struck as we came over that rise about how perfect this looked like. How perfect the scene was for a college campus. And it was the end result of tramping over much of the foothills in the Mother Lode territory. And it was a prophetic and happy meeting on a very cold and blustery day when we saw the San Diego campus.

DYER: Were there problems in developing the site, since it was in the mountains?

DR. GARCIA: Well, there were challenges. There were challenges. There were problems with the site here at Rio Hundo, for instance, it was a much more difficult site because we’d have to move a lot of dirt. And we spent an inordinate amount to develop this sculptured hillside kind of campus. Columbia presented some challenges because it was remote. Access needed to be improved. But we started on the very clear understanding that we would do as little violence to that site as possible. So we did not contemplate at any time extensive site development beyond that which was absolutely necessary for traffic and circulation and the like. And I’m pleased to see that the subsequent administrations have pretty well kept to that. Of course the great thing about Columbia is its wonderful location. It’s essentially a rural location, and to do much violence to that site would be a great tragedy because that is certainly one of the great assets of the institution.

DYER: Were there any significant changes after you started the original plans or construction?

DR. GARCIA: Oh yes. After we started the original plans, yes. There weren’t many changes after construction started because I left them about the time they started breaking ground. But I do remember the very arduous but exciting process of assembling a nuclear staff at Columbia. Administrative staff – Bill Haskins, Bob Deal, Dusty, of course, as President. ??? with her input. ??? near Sonora, for intensive weekend workshops. And trying to bring to bear the most imaginative and creative thinking we could develop to prepare what we hoped would be an exciting and interesting kind of institution. And you know, the more we talked about what we wanted to do, and we did this in a rather academic way, we set forth objectives and processes and the like. The more we saw the institution kind of growing, you know, in our eyes, ???... Even beyond the point where we decided we wanted a full-scale campus, then the project still grew beyond that because we knew we could not accomplish the two things we wanted to if we simply formed up in some random helter-skelter way and facilities to keep people out of the rain and snow. So after a long process of dialog and planning, which Dusty provided the leadership for, which I was pleased to be present at and provide some contributions to, the even more ambitious concept of what a college in Columbia ought to be like developed.

DR. GARCIA: It was a very, very interesting process. A very interesting thing. And it’s very difficult to plan an entire institution.

DYER: It must be very exciting to be involved in the groundwork in some ??? this. What about the temporary facilities? Do you remember the old Eagle Cottage?

DR. GARCIA: Just slightly. Just slightly. See, I think Eagle Cottage started – must have started classes in ’68 perhaps, or – could it have been ’68?

DYER: Fall of ’68?

DR. GARCIA: In the fall of ’68. Well then I – no, by George, I had left by then. I came here in ’67, that’s right. So although I did see the Eagle Cottage facility, it was on a return visit. But I ??? while I was there – this was before I think we had begun negotiations for the cottage – and we had some staff up there. But I was not present during the Eagle Cottage experience. I recall being on the main street in Sonora and being a rather interesting kind of facility which tried to offer some instruction. But I’m really not terribly familiar with the operation of it.

DYER: Dr. Garcia, was it difficult to find the funds to finance this new junior college?

DR. GARCIA: Well of course we had the funds from the tax override that passed in the fall of ’66 for construction purposes. Of course there was much competition for those funds because Modesto had needs as well. I would say a more serious problem with construction funding – or funding of construction for Columbia – was the problem of trying to develop a new administration and finance the operations of a new college. The building money - you know this is generally true – generally true – was not easy to come by, but with the election we had sufficient funds to begin on a rather modest scale. As I recall, as our planning went along the people at Modesto Junior College became increasingly concerned as the institution in Columbia assumed far more ambitious dimensions than we had anticipated, quite frankly.

DR. GARCIA: So there was competition for the funds – there were enough funds, I suppose, to do something, to do most things. The question really was, “how ol-“-and this is very difficult to answer-“On what rational basis do you choose between the needs of two campuses?” One, the older one and second, the newer one needing to be born and needing to be started off on quite a good footing. To do so, we had money. Question was, where did it go. And we were strapped then, as I’m sure, as the Yosemite Junior College District is and as every other community college district in the state is, for funding of all kinds but particularly for operation purposes. There was, I recall, some very tense administrative staff meetings as we attempted to work out a bunch of allocations. And as you know, Dusty Rhodes is a person of strong convictions, and the most energetic in promoting development of an enterprise with which he is associated. And so there were many a good ??? as we began – and I think well on the way to solving on some rational basis a formula for allocation of money. But initially for Columbia, we found ourselves – we thought we would make quite a modest investment, we found the investment growing rather rapidly, but we were persuaded that it was necessary.  There was that kind of tension. There was not never really enough money, except potentially.

DYER: Thank you very much, Dr. Garcia, for taking some of your valuable time to speak to us about these formative years. We do appreciate it. Thank you.

END OF RECORDED INTERVIEW – tape was probably spliced here

DYER: This interview is with Donald S. Brady, member of the Board of Trustees from Sonora, and his wife Millie. This appeared in the Modesto Bee a few years back. It was written by Bernie Cole. Bernie Noll.

BEGIN RECORDED INTERVIEW

DYER: Perhaps one of the men most instrumental in spurring serious talk about a future college on a property is Trustee Donald Brady of Sonora. A self-described pill-pusher and part-time trustee, who at the drop of a hat would gladly exchange his pharmacist’s smock for a wool shirt and boots to hike over the land and discuss its potential. Don Brady.

DYER: Don, how about telling us a little bit about the plan to establish a separate Junior College here in Columbia? Was it a kind of evolutionary process or you see it as part of a master plan?

BRADY: No, I think, Dick, that it was a evolution. The students from Tuolumne County that were going on to higher education at the time had two alternatives. Number One is to transfer to a state college or a university and continue on in the freshman status. Or Number Two is to make the bus trip down to Modesto on a daily basis – it’s 175 days a year. This meant some of them getting up at six in the morning and not getting home until after 7 at night, when the trip entailed 100 to 120 miles a day, the bus leaving from Tuolumne. The first time the trustees basically became involved was shortly after the formation of the district, or the next fall I should say after the formation of the district, there was a meeting of staff from Modesto Junior College – the superintendent, the president, the doctor, Garcia, Dr. Rowland, Fran ??????, the campus planner at the time, the trustees, heads of the departments, deans from Modesto Junior College. At that time the map was presented to us on the population centers of this district. Since we are one of the largest districts from a land area standpoint in this state, we’re where the population is. And we did fine but there was a population center in Tuolumne County that we were quite remote from the rest of the district, and at that time then, I think that there was some discussion, some consideration going on as to should we have a campus up here.

DYER: Now was that the Strawberry meeting in the fall of 1964?

BRADY: Yes, that would have been in the fall of 1964, Dick.

DYER: It was held at Strawberry?

BRADY: Yes.

DYER: So then the initial plan came out of that particular meeting. Were classes then offered in the area before the campus was officially opened?

BRADY: Yes. There were classes being held in Tuolumne County, primarily at Sonora High School, on an evening basis only. These classes were primarily in the academic fields and of course on the junior college, community college viewpoint there was nothing for the ones that wanted to learn a skill or learn a trade with a technical basis – there was no training for these people whatsoever. And only very limited classes available for those that did even want to transfer on. It was primarily an adult program. Not very many students knew the graduated students took advantage of this particular night program.

DYER: Then the official opening of Columbia Junior College was in the fall of 1968 at the Eagle Cottage campus.

BRADY: Yes, yes that’s correct. Eagle Cottage was the main headquarters. There were some courses being held in other parts of the county and in other facilities at Columbia State Park.

DYER: Was Columbia Junior College considered a satellite campus by many of the people at Modesto?

BRADY: For a while they were considered, I think, as a satellite. Dr. Rhodes was appointed the president up here and I discouraged as much as possible being a satellite because of the distance involved. There was some feelings developed as time went on – I don’t think initially when the campus was started. But I think some feelings of whether it be jealousy or what, I don’t know. Primarily from some of the faculty at Modesto Junior College towards Columbia, and this attitude unfortunately still persists.

DYER: Did you have a feeling that the Modesto Junior College faculty was not really involved in the early stages of the development of Columbia?

BRADY: They’re not really involved to a great degree at the beginning. We had nobody ready up here. Bill Haskins was the second man appointed up here, next to Doctor Rhodes. He had been the one who was even before that under the night school program. I used to call him President of the Modesto Junior College night school at Sonora High School. He was the one that used to run the night school program up here before we ever thought of a campus up here. There were people from Modesto on the staff level directly involved with the campus up here. We had no faculty of our own.

DYER: Let’s pause for a moment for this, Don, and I’ll flip the tape over to side B.

END OF TAPE

General Information:

Interviewer: Dyer, Richard

Interviewee in interview #1: Doctor Garcia, Walter M. (Superintendent of the Yosemite Junior College District during the 1968-1969)

Interviewee in interview #2: Brady, Donald S. (Member of the Tuolumne Connty Board of Trustees from Sonora)

Name of Tape: (a section of) History of Columbia Junior College (CC_hist_2_0)

When: Late 60’s early 70’s

Transcriber: Alden (3/12/08)

Transcriber’s Note: Note that the first tape of this series is named “Development of Columbia Junior College” with the MP3 filename “CC_dev_1”.

TAPE QUALITY LOW – SOME SEGMENTS UNINTELLIGIBLE (“???” MARKS)