Dyer: This is Dick Dyer, history instructor, at Columbia Junior College. Today is the 17th of December 1974 and we’re at the Mi Wok Indian Rancheria in Tuolumne for a talk with Mary Cox and Dorothy Stanley and also a demonstration on how to make acorn bread. We’re inside the round house at the Mi Wok Indian Rancheria in Tuolumne and first let me introduce the people that you see here on this video tape. I’m Dick Dyer, history instructor, at Columbia Junior College and to my right is Mary Cox. Mary the acorn specialist, expert at the rancheria and to my left is Dorothy Stanley who (___) the representing the tribal council here at the rancheria. So why don’t we start from the beginning and, Mary, can you tell us first what you’re doing because it looks like that’s the beginning except for gathering the acorns?
Cox: Yeah. I am cracking the acorn and the good ones go in this basket and bad ones in that one. Then these I’ve got ones they have cracking and after and then Mrs. Stanley is taking the peelings off that and clean all this but we have to…what?
Stanley: Dry them.
Cox: Dry them.
Stanley: They’re dry…
Cox: And they’re peeled.
Stanley: Especially if they’re new.
Cox: Yeah.
Dyer: Now we know what you do with the good ones. What do you do with the bad ones?
Cox: We throw these out underneath the trees (___) for, like, mold or something in other plants and stuff…*Dyer interrupts* (2:01)
Dyer: Wouldn’t it be good…wouldn’t it be good to put it in the fire now?
Cox: No it hasn’t…Indians don’t believe in burning beans. They say if you burn them, they’ll be the acorns for next year or after.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: So they never burned the beans.
Dyer: Well where did most of these acorns come from?
Cox: These acorns came from the Ukiah (___).
Dyer: Can you buy them?
Cox: No we don’t buy acorns.
Dyer: Well we have the black oak tree around here, don’t we?
Cox: Yes we have black oak trees and swamp oak trees but we don’t pick those we just…no the black trees we pick but not swamp oaks.
Dyer: Uh-huh…now these are black oak…*Mary interrupts* (2:47)
Cox: We got black oak, yeah.
Stanley: They become very sparse around here.
Cox: Yeah. This year Mrs. Stanley and Mr. Stanley went up to Ukiah at some point (___)…
Stanley: The 15th.
Cox: Fifteenth. You have to ask the people to go on their property and we pick them out by the roads and some people don’t wanna give them to you because they feed them to their hogs, but you go along and you just pick, pick, pick ‘til you…a lot of people rake them up for you and they just leave them there so you can do it. Went up in the park there in the Ukiah City Park. There’s some beautiful oak trees in the park man he had raked them all up and we just went through the piles. I got three sacks there.
Dyer: What is it that produces a good acorn crop? What’s the Indian belief about tending acorn crop? Is it just weather or maybe people who don’t burn acorns.
Cox: No you’re not supposed to sell them…*Dyer interrupts* (3:54)
Dyer: You’re not supposed to sell them?
Cox: No…yeah. Course that’s all an acorn…*Stanley interrupts* (3:57)
Stanley: Trade but you cannot sell; and they all spilled it. Somebody had done wrong someplace and maybe the people aren’t working together and this is one way, as you would say, the Great Spirit punishes them.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: As long as I can remember as a child, there was always acorn and I’ve been up here the last three, four years and there’s been no acorn.
Dyer: Are these baskets that you’re using, Mary, do they have a special significance here?
Cox: Yes this here…these baskets put a lot of acorns in here (___) cleaned it, so you can use it for pine nuts. The pioneers (___) (___) made by (___).
Dyer: That’s a wash (___) basket?
Cox: A wash(___) basket (___) (___) and my aunt gave it to me before she passed away there, Mrs. Bobbert. And this one my son died is the way we got this (___) (___) (___) (___) (___), but we always use them for acorns and this here is for acorns too. You can win the way…
Dyer: I see.
Cox: And this one here is after you grind it. You get the fine ones in (___) (___)…*Dyer interrupts* (5:25)
Dyer: That’s why is has the…
Cox: Yeah that’s…
Dyer: …a little…
Cox: …a little, fine looking meal…
Dyer: …meal inside…
Cox: …yeah, then you dig the coarse ones out when you shake it like this. It’s a “hetalote”…they call it “hetalote.”
Dyer: Hetalote?
Cox: Hetalote, yeah and this one…*Dyer interrupts* (5:42).
Dyer: Now this one is quite old isn’t it?
Stanley: Yeah that’s over 100 years old long tooth. Mrs. Cox’s mother…that’s Jimmy and (___) grandmother.
Dyer: This one here is?
Stanley: That’s winawade too. That’s made (___) (___).
Cox: The coarses just wash up.
Stanley: Yeah.
Cox: The wash(___) some of their work was fine and some of it was very coarse.
Stanley: Yeah.
Cox: Now there…*Stanley interrupts* (6:11).
Stanley: This is made by (___) it’s kind of fine.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: Not fine in the dollar sense (___) (___) (___).
Cox: They call them “working baskets.”
Stanley: Yeah (___) working baskets.
Dyer: Now you have a different feeling about a basket than you would, say, a pot or frying pan…*Stanley interrupts* (6:28)
Stanley: Yeah…
Dyer: …or something…
Stanley: …yeah…
Dyer: …like that?
Stanley: We take care of them. It’s just like nobody else, you know, who don’t know anything you just…I loan my other baskets out (___). I know they would kind of ruin them (___) (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: Iggy…my son’s…I never did plan it our anymore.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: And some of my baskets were stolen at an acorn festival (___) and then (___) (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: And that still brush made by a soldier is to brush the acorns in like this and you clean them and you can wash the baskets with these too…scrub them like this in water.
Dyer: You do use water on basket (___)…*Stanley interrupts* (07:14)…
Stanley: Yes you use water for the basket.
Dyer: And this is soap wood?
Stanley: That’s (___) soap…
Dyer: It’s a very fibrous…
Stanley: Indians comb their hair with that.
Cox: Yeah.
Dyer: Mmmm.
Stanley: They comb their hair.
Dyer: What about beards too?
Dyer: What is this handle? Is that a bone?
Stanley: That’s a pitch.
Dyer: A pitch?
Stanley: A pitch, yeah. They tied a lot of string around it and put pitch…
Cox: …hot…
Stanley: …hot pitch and then they’d work it over with…they’d rub their hands in dirt and (___).
Dyer: Now what can you tell us about the motor in Pen (___) here?
Cox: That’s the rock to ground the acorns with.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: And these holes we put the acorns in like (___) (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: Yeah then you just pound it in there.
Dyer: Do you want to give us a demonstration? I’ll let you use my chair.
Cox: Pound it ‘til it get fine.
Dyer: How many people still make acorn bread and meal and mush by the traditional way…way?
Cox: There’s just very few.
Dyer: Now what do you usually serve up the acorn bread? On special occasions or…
Cox: On special occasions or when you want to have a taste of acorn meal.
Dyer: Uh-huh. Do people have different ways of preparing the acorns or is it almost the same recipe used by all people?
Cox: Usually…I just normally by the same I guess.
Dyer: When you mentioned earlier that you burn your acorn a little bit before…
Cox: Well when I cook it, yes, in the pot to make it kind of tastier, that burnt taste.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: Then it gives it flavor…
Stanley: It’s like you would be browning meat.
Cox: Yeah.
Stanley: And that would kind of give it flavor you know. You say brown the chicken so you brown the meal so it gives it a little…she uses a lot of cedar. Even the wood is special. You have to have manzanita wood. It’s better…it’s heats the rocks better.
Cox: It gives it better taste too. (___) put apple limbs or something it tastes like apple.
*simultaneous talking* (10:09-10:10).
Cox: Yes…soap stone…
Stanley: …Yeah…weird…
Cox: …fine…
Dyer: So then even something like this it would be a rather be valuable (___)…*interrupted* (10:22)…if you want to make sure its only used with the acorn.
Stanley: Yeah or some other berries…they use manzanita berries when you make cider. They used to use these rocks.
Cox: And the wheat.
Stanley: The wheat…a night or two a week they had a lot of wheat things.
Dyer: What do you put into your acorn bread?
Cox: We don’t put anything in it just water.
Stanley: …water…
Dyer: Any berries or…
Stanley: No we put no berries in…and you just put it in there.
Dyer: Now you’re loosening it up with the…
Cox: Yeah with this little brush…
Dyer: …little brush…
Cox: Now…
Dyer: Now how do you do it?
Cox: In the…get this…let the coarse ones stem down and the fine ones stays up here, see.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: And the coarse ones come all the way down here and then when the coarse ones come down, then you put it right back in here again like this and you pound it all over again; you start over again ‘til you use the whole thing up…all the acorns.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: And all the ones you save to make the acorn, so you can make it fine (___) (___), you know, this is fine enough.
Dyer: This is almost (___) (___) like flour isn’t it…
Cox: …like flour, yeah.
Dyer: Now the next step after you’ve done this?
Cox: Then you leach it.
Dyer: Oh the leaching.
Cox: Bleach in it, yeah.
Dyer: And what (___) (___)…*Mary interrupts* (12:05).
Cox: (___) (___) on a big tail that is…see that on Friday.
Dyer: Uh-huh see that later.
Cox: Yeah later.
Dyer: OK.
Cox: We put…we have to have a cedar (___) and the table, pine needles (___).
Dyer: Now this has a distinctive smell to me now…
Cox: It does?
Dyer: After it’s…after it’s leached…*Stanley interrupts* (12:23)
Stanley: It has…(laughing).
Dyer: Can you smell it?
Stanley: I don’t smell it.
Dyer: You don’t?
Cox: No I’ve been around it all week I guess.
Stanley: We’re trying to make it for our (___) for our Christmas dinner and for our own family. I think our family’s the one that enjoys more acorns than any family on the rancheria.
Cox: Even the little children (___).*Stanley interrupts* (12:46).
Stanley: Children right.
Dyer: But after it’s leached, does it have a different appearance?
Cox: Oh yes…
Stanley: It has like a sweet taste.
Dyer: I see.
Cox: Because all that (___) feel all out.
Dyer: Uh-huh. Now Dorothy, what are you doing?
Stanley: I’m taking the little…the little…husking of…what do you call these things?
Cox: Peeling jackets…
Stanley: Yeah the little…she calls them jackets.
Cox: (___) jackets I always call “brown jackets.”
Stanley: Like the nuts had the little husk over them; we’re taking that off because that has a tendency to make…oh I don’t know it seems like whenever you ate somebody else’s acorn they had a lot of that, why, the…it…supposedly the Indian lady didn’t take time to clean her acorn and…(___) are very tedious job to do, but nowadays you got television and to Mary watches her soap operas and (___) (___) acorns. (___) he cracks…these…
Dyer: Its good.
Stanley: (___) (___) cracks them like…
Dyer: Well it’s easier to crack then a walnut. It seems as the shell isn’t quite that hard.
Stanley: See now when you get these (___), you get a nice blend you can get all this stuff when you blow all that.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: And you have to…and you can roll it like this and that stuff just rolls right off if they’re dry. You notice they’re all coming out of here.
Dyer: Uh-huh well do you usually process the acorns inside or is it outside?
Stanley: Outside.
Cox: Outside.
Dyer: Traditionally, of course, it would be…*Stanley interrupts* (14:50)
Stanley: Outside, right. There would be more women together, you know.
Cox: Then there’s supposed to be a little wind. If it isn’t windy, you have to blow on it.
Stanley: Yeah.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: It’s a shame a lot of our younger ones won’t quite pick it up, but they probably realize it’s too late.
Dyer: Now you wouldn’t sell acorn bread…
Stanley: No, no.
Dyer: …or the meal.
Stanley: …no they donate. You may donate you know. We would never cook (___) on it.
Cox: Other Indians can, like Nevada or somewhere where you can sell it, but not…*Stanley interrupts* (15:36)
Stanley: There’s always something that happens though. The last time I went up there the lady had some beautiful acorn bread. She was selling it for .50 cents and it never got as big as your fist; two fists together I guess for .50 cents and the following day I went over to ask her if she had anymore and something happened. She didn’t put water in there or she did something that they turned all moldy.
Cox: Oh yeah.
Stanley: So you can see that just old saying something, you know, you’re not supposed to sell them.
Dyer: Right. Do the Indians like to use salt with their acorn bread?
Stanley: A lot of them do.
Cox: A lot of them do. They used to burn them in salt rocks (___) with the acorn.
Dyer: Uh-huh. Well now that would be like a bowl of salt?
Cox: Yes. They used to put little acorn and they’d burn it by the heat…
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: …in it. What they called (___).
Stanley: Yeah.
Cox: Yeah.
Stanley: I always eat with meat and, you know, onion.
Cox: Onion, yeah.
Dyer: Boiled onion?
Stanley & Cox: Raw onions…
Dyer: Did the men help at all in…
Cox: They went hunting.
Dyer: They went hunting?
Cox: But there’s some men that help like my grandfather used to get the wood and everything for my grandmother and pack the water at least. There was nobody to help her.
Stanley: Takes a lot of water.
Cox: Yeah it takes a lot of water.
Dyer: The leaching itself.
Cox: Leaching and like when you cooking.
Dyer: Wouldn’t it be possible to put it in a stream and let the flow of the stream leach it or is that bad too?
Cox: No it had to be washed off.
Stanley: Wash it away.
Cox: Yeah.
Stanley: Just move it down stream.
Dyer: But do you use hot water when you leach?
Stanley: You can start with warm water then cold water and let the cold water finish it.
Dyer: Uh-huh. Well it seems to me like it’s a very time consuming proposition if you’re making acorn bread.
Stanley: It is.
Dyer: The gathering itself…once the acorns are readily available, could take a lot of time and then the cracking and the husking I guess.
Cox: Well after you pick these acorns when they first picked off the ground, you have to just turn them over and over every other day or otherwise they spoil…
Stanley: Sweat.
Cox: …sweat and they mold. They turn black.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: So you have to keep moving them around until they kind of dry just like this.
Dyer: Now some of these have holes in them.
Cox: That’s worms.
Dyer: That’s a worm hole.
Cox: A worm hole, yeah.
Dyer: Which means…?
Cox: They had worms inside, yeah.
Dyer: You’ll probably throw it away then?
Cox: Yeah. That’s to keep the worms from getting into them too when you turn them around.
Dyer: Well do you have to pick them a certain time after they drop from the trees?
Stanley: Yeah in fall.
Dyer: Otherwise the worms get in them?
Cox: Yeah little worms get into them immediately when they (___)…
Dyer: from the tree.
Cox: …then they fall. The wormy ones fall first and the good ones stay up in the tree.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: But most of the acorn comes down and the wind blows them down maybe around October.
Dyer: Uh-huh well then you start gathering in October?
Cox: Yeah gathering in October.
Dyer: And then do you have to let them…
Cox: (___) to September.
Dyer: Do you let them dry for a little bit or season?
Stanley: Yeah you have to have them dry, but we have cracked some of the new ones in here to mix this years acorn with our acorn for this year.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: This year’s acorn…they were (___) yet, but I had them dried under the stove and you can’t tell the difference, see. You don’t know which one is old one and which one is new.
Dyer: How many years will they keep?
Stanley: Oh as long as you keep them in a good place, they’ll keep a long time.
Cox: Yeah.
Dyer: Just as a wheat or…
Stanley: But if you…they’ll keep in their shells but if you keep them like this, they smell moldy…
Cox: and they dry out.
Stanley: Yes they dry out and they turn black or something.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: But after you…now the Indians after they leach it, they can freeze things.
Cox: It freezes (___)…
Dyer: Oh….
Stanley: We leach a whole mess of it and we freeze it so whenever we’re ready, we just take it out. Aunty Mary and I tried this but it was two years ago I had (___)…
Cox: Yes.
Stanley: I said, “let’s try it.” We had tried it and it had worked out real good…
Cox: But you can’t (___) the already cooked acorn.
Stanley: No.
Cox: They turned all like wood or something. It tastes (___) (___).
Dyer: Better part of two cultures then…
Cox: Yes.
Dyer: …the white man’s freezer and…
Cox: Yeah.
Dyer: …the inside of the house.
Stanley: We put them in plastic bags and we laughed and we thought it was funny and tried a little bit of it and then got some…defrosted the thing and we tried it and it came out just real great.
Dyer: Do you eat a lot of acorn bread yourself there?
Stanley: Yes if I had it all the time, I’d be living on it.
Dyer: (___) acorn bread.
Stanley: Yeah, yeah a lot of old people they call for acorns too. We let Mrs. Jane, she likes the acorn and she’s a pretty sick lady and we feed her acorns and she said she feels better.
Dyer: Uh-huh but it wasn’t used so much as a medicine though. It’s just a basic food?
Stanley: Yeah.
Dyer: Are you one of the few making acorn bread here at the rancheria?
Cox: Who else makes it?
Stanley: (___) (___) (___)…
Cox: Viola makes it though…yeah (___) (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: And (___).
Stanley: And me.
Cox: Me and Dorothy.
Stanley: We make it together though.
Cox: We work together, but I have been making it right along since my sister passed away that was Mrs. Fuller.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: I used to help her quite a bit.
Dyer: Maybe it’s because I’m not aware of this, but Dorothy you were telling me something about this grinding rock here…
Stanley: Oh…
Dyer: …(___) I can move it. Can you explain it again…
Stanley: Well the bottom of it, the deeper one, is…that’s the…I think…yeah…this is the daughter’s side and the this is the mother side.
Dyer: And then when you turn it around this way…
Stanley: Right.
Dyer: …you get a…
Stanley: Mother used this side and then the daughter…she gave it to her daughter when she died and it fell to her and her daughter started on the other side.
Dyer: Is that unusual to have two (___)…*Stanley interrupts* (22:30)
Stanley: This…this is one…we can’t move ours around her because they’re all on great, big boulders and everything, so we don’t have any here. We…I’ve gotten this one from the Lake County.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: Up in Lake County and their people believe in that. Now their people believe that they had little ones like this they could use and take with them like you said it was mobile and they could move it.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: Well they…when they died, they usually buried those with them.
Dyer: They buried them?
Stanley: Yep.
Dyer: Hmm.
Stanley: They buried them.
Dyer: So then it would be very unusual to find…
Stanley: Right.
Dyer: …her daughter to have stone (___)…
Stanley: Right.
Dyer: Well I have never seen one like this. I would assume that it would be very valuable right now.
Stanley: Yes well it is and a lot of people don’t realize what they are. They just figure it’s just a rock with a big old hole in it. I heard down in Jamestown this lady had a…these rocks and down there was this canyon and she didn’t know what she had and I just bought he whole bunch of rocks for $10 and a shopping cart and I got some very, very valuable rocks down there. She…
Dyer: Now the grinding rock, itself, I assume that takes on many different shapes depending on…*Stanley interrupts* (23:43)
Stanley: Yes.
Dyer: …the person…
Stanley: …your hand.
Dyer: I guess this was (___) (___).
Stanley: That one’s broken.
Dyer: Oh it’s broken.
Stanley: You can see it was a nice one, but you can see where…you can feel where there’d been (___). Put your hand like that and then try it.
Dyer: It’s supposed to be properly (___).
Stanley: Right, see, now see where you’d been holding that one?
Dyer: And you get the flat piece…*Stanley interrupts* (24:03)
Stanley: See right there. There goes for your hands right there; put your fingers on there.
Dyer: But not like this?
Stanley: No.
Cox: No.
Stanley: Pull it, put your hand…the flat part on there like that…now you see, you can feel it, see?
Dyer: Mmm.
Stanley: See?
Dyer: Yeah that’s…
Stanley: That’s the way it is.
Dyer: That’s a real tool?
Stanley: Uh-huh.
Dyer: You mean it didn’t accidently…
Stanley: No.
Dyer: …shape itself?
Stanley: No, that’s how they, you know, how the handling of the rock. That would’ve been a good one except that it’s broke.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: And I still say it’s something because you know there somebody has used it.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: They saw the other big grinding rocks (___) (___)…
Stanley: Yeah.
Cox: …(___) (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Stanley: You can use them in both hands.
Cox: Both hands and you can feel it. It set on the ground then they just found a way.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Cox: That’s it.
Stanley: ‘Til the next step.
Dyer: Well now next time what we’ll do is…I guess you ladies are going to do some leaching first.
Stanley: And then cook it.
Dyer: And show us a little bit of leaching when we come back.
Cox: I’ll have it on the table the leaching and we don’t have to wait for it. Then we can go on and head out the acorns overnight.
Dyer: OK and then you’ll do the cooking?
Cox: Yeah I’ll do the cooking.
Dyer: And it’ll just be the acorn bread though?
Cox: Acorn soup and acorn bread.
Dyer: What’s the difference between the soup?
Stanley: The bread…the soup is just like a gravy.
Dyer: Like a gravy?
Stanley: And the bread is a little like…
Cox: Jello.
Stanley: Jello…a little heavier than jello.
Cox: Yeah.
Dyer: Than jello.
Cox: I just make it small but they used to make it big.
Dyer: Well we do appreciate the time and energy and good thoughts that have gone into this video tape production, so I think what we’ll do is we’ll just pause and finish up next time.
Cox: Ok.
Dyer: Real good. Thank you; I appreciate everything Mary and Dorothy.
Stanley: Ok I got that much cleaned.
Cox: Yeah I got quite a bit that grime off…
Stanley: (___) (___) (___) yeah.
Dyer: Does anybody want this? (___) (___) (___). How long (___) (___) to be saving that.
?: Oh about 25 minutes.
Dyer: Well I thought it was pretty close to 30. Well that’s good. Well this is really quite fascinating with the mother/daughter stone.
Stanley: If you ever wanna use it…well…
Dyer: I’d rather my wife use it.
Stanley: No I mean for demonstrations or anything like that.
Dyer: Well I can see why Elmer brought it up (___) (___).
Cox: Yeah.
?: This is an anthropology class here.
Stanley: Uh-huh.
?: (___) (___).
Stanley: Yeah that’s a coastal…that (__) Lake County up there is coastal.
?: Yeah.
Stanley: Yeah.
?: This (___) (___) (___) anthropology (___) (___).
Stanley: Well the man that had it…him and I had words. He was out there digging the graves 1and when I found out and you know the (___) (___) ends up there and they don’t like you to interfere with anything, so I called several of them up and said, “There’s a man up there,” I said, “(___) (___) he’s digging up these graves.” Getting these shells and those little charms and everything, you know, and so they sat around, sat around and finally about two months later then they decided to do something, but then it was too late. He already taken what he wanted.
Dyer: Yeah.
Stanley: So every time I see him when I see him, I say, “Hey Billy Joe,” I says, “You got that knives.” I says, “You can’t have that.” I says, “You know,” I says, “What’s gonna happen to you, is you’re gonna get sick.” He says, “Well I’ll sell it to you,” you know. So I think he sell that to Elmer for $20 and another one he just gave to me, you know. He says, “To be friends with you, I’ll just give you this one.” But I always tell him, “You’re gonna get sick.”
Dyer: To appease the Gods.
Stanley: Yeah.
Dyer: Some time I’d like to talk to you about religion.
Stanley: Oh good.
Dyer: Because I know that you, Dorothy…
Stanley: Yeah.
Dyer: Done some work on it.
Stanley: Well I get a big bang out of it when Franky Gonzales, you know Franky, he brings some of his college students up and we talk about different things about the Indian now and the past and when you were a child and Franky was around and everything like that. Then in (___) somebody says, “Well what about your religion?” And so then I have to tell them what I feel and how it came about and the difference things and then they…they kind of think about it and it’s something to think about and it’s been with me and I can just now beginning to realize what the old lady, Mrs. Fuller, was teaching me.
Dyer: I think the thing that impresses me is something that so oftenly Christian Churches have been unable to do and that is that the Indian lived their religion daily.
Stanley: Right.
Dyer: And it doesn’t matter when you’re talking about a brush or you’re talking about…
Stanley: Right everything has…
Dyer: …tools like this. There was a feeling…
Stanley: Right this is it.
Dyer: I think it’s a much healthier attitude than assuming that you go to a special building on a special day at a special hour…
Stanley: Right.
Dyer: …and you do it that way…
Stanley: It just doesn’t…no and then you see so much of the falseness, you know, and I know there’s a Father in our area and I run across him every time (___). I work for the telephone and he’d place his calls and there are a couple of things that he does just because a hypocrite and you know it just makes you kind of angry…
Dyer: Yeah, yeah.
Stanley: …and you think here he is supposed to represent your God and everything. They listen to you know and you just get kind of disappointed in things like that. I, myself, have always been baptized Catholic and all my children. I have just given it up. I don’t say I have no respect for it. That’s you do your thing and I’ll do mine, but I just don’t feel it’s there anymore.
?: (___) Father (___) because months later now.
Stanley: Yeah.
?: Yeah there’s like a new one?
Stanley: Uh-huh and you know a lot of times Grandma Fuller used to have…when we used to go to the old ranch, we had this great, big, old ranch house and upstairs in the attic they had different rooms and in each season she had acorns from each season. No kidding she had really and the son usually (___) you know the glasses. She’d be with the glass windows used to fall upon her like that and then each room had different acorns for each season that she picked.
Dyer: Hmmm.
Stanley: I remember these things now.
Dyer: Well I wish you will try to recreate the lifestyle. It’s obvious that you, you know, you’re gonna have to use freezers I think and sometimes (___) (___) (___) because of the time involved but I just really think it’s great to see that you’re really actively pursuing the lifestyle…the original lifestyle.
Stanley: Well we’re trying to bring back all the Indians again…like our Indian dinner, we’re bringing all Indians…