Dyer: Now the Curtain Ranch in our area was then down near the Lincoln Lantern…
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: …on Highway 108. *interrupted by Coleman* (0:20)
Coleman: Well that on the AB Curtain Ranch.
Dyer: And then during the summer months, they’d run them into the valley?
Coleman: Yep into the National Forest.
Dyer: Did you ever work for them?
Coleman: Oh yeah.
Dyer: As a cowboy…take ‘em back…
Coleman: Cowboy…I’d…
Dyer: …down in the mountain. Why don’t we…
Coleman: He has them (___) by the name of Johnson. These other dudes (___) (___) sometimes and he also has a (___) related to the cattle team, I believe, in Carlen. They were related all. There were Curtains in Carlen, and he had a nephew Curtain Davey (___) (___) call him. And he would follow them all the time and then Bob Curtain he didn’t know them and he was a cop (___) (___). And then his brother, Johnny Curtain, he was gone with them, see.
Dyer: One of them became state senator, didn’t he?
Coleman: Yeah and that was a mean hick, Johnny Curtain. D.B. Curtain and all down through here is where what’s his name (___) what the property had towards him. He owned all that country including all them cattle all over. There was a big outlet for them. None of them was ever bigger than Holland.
Dyer: Did they get out… *Coleman interrupts Dyer* (2:00)
Coleman: There was some mean cattle then; long time and that was a bull. (___) (___)…Williams Luck…Miller Luck, he was a big cattleman. Miller Luck’s operated in Pickle Path and oil and five all along down to (___) Willow, Bakersfield, Oregon, and everywhere else…Nevada.
Dyer: When you got tons and thousands of acres, you got it all around the west.
Coleman: To be driving …(___) (___) (___). I drive.
Dyer: Senator Curtain opposed the change in the National Park of making it into a National Park. It had been state property for a while.
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: And he opposed to making it into a (___) (___).
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: Did he feel that it was going to restrict his cattle operation.
Coleman: Oh yeah. I think in Curtains day they paid the (___) government $7 a…or .07 cents a head for the keeper they had grazed the cattle in the mountain.
Dyer: Huh .07 cents a head, huh. What about Colonel…Major, I guess he was at the time, Major Harry Benson, he was a commander of the troops there.
Coleman: Oh yeah (___) (___). He’s…I don’t know what he was but he was the main squeeze of the troops original. Black or white, he make original…make events for (___). He was a good ole Joe. He’s a little manly. He was a good guy; I liked him. He did raise 50,000 way back and I’ve talked to the man on the trail and everything and asked me who my whole team was. You know you gotta (___) team and asked who my whole team was and my (___) team and I (___) figured it out. (___) is down below and (___) and some …you asking about him and he’d drop back a certain day and a time. He’d come back (___). I mean there were two dogs laying on the trail in front of you and everything on the back (___) dogs…
Dyer: Why didn’t they want the dogs?
Coleman: Oh they thought they chased the dame.
Dyer: Yet the sheep men must’ve had dogs?
Coleman: Oh yeah they all had dogs. They shoot the dog now in cattle (___) (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Coleman: From the deer like that (___) (___) (___). (___) know where I was at. If he could run him out chasing squirrels (___) to work. Be right there with his handler. We already got them there.
Dyer: So you used a lot of cattle dogs too?
Coleman: Oh yeah.
Dyer: Did they work pretty well?
Coleman: Oh yeah.
Dyer: Was that a special breed of dog or…
Coleman: Oh yeah. He was a Shepard dog.
Dyer: Shepard?
Coleman: Yeah. Pup being a (___) brown Shepard. They make the best dogs. They don’t make a very good sheep dog, but an Australian Shepard, some of them make a good sheep dog, and they intimidate but most of them like the guy (___) (___) taking Shepard’s in there make good dogs. *unintelligible* (5:33-5:50)
Dyer: Did the Indians use their dogs at all?
Coleman: No, they had a lot of dogs but they didn’t use them for nothing.
Dyer: They never eat them?
Coleman: No.
Dyer: Some people thought…*interrupted by Coleman* (6:03)
Coleman: Some people don’t and some people say *unintelligible* (6:05-6:17). You couldn’t hire one of these (___) dogs (___). Club big enough (___) (___) like you need one. (___) (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: Now Colonel Benson was…was he in charge of the valley or just the in charge of the troops?
Coleman: In charge of the valley and (___). He ruled (___).
Dyer: Oh he was mean? He was the number one man there.
Coleman: He was it. Yeah he was…he was the major.
Dyer: Some people, evidentially, didn’t get along with him…
Coleman: Oh no…try to cross him and just wouldn’t be fought that’s all. They had too much fracking. *unintelligible* (7:05-7:12)
Dyer: His wife was interviewed some years ago and she said that he was very concerned about doing a good job in the valley…
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: …and very conscientious and hardworking.
Coleman: Yep the valley was beautiful when he was (___). He always (___) (___) vegetation in there. He planted harvested. Planted the (___) and he stocked it up and he fed the farm animals with it and he fed grain to the cavalry horse and…but he said that he plowed hay to the cavalry horses; made use of it. (___) letters were just like a lawn, you know, with pits and it looked beautiful in (___) there was no stock in the winter. Stopped for both of them and those letters used to go…what they call a “primitive”.
Dyer: Wild grass?
Coleman: Wild grass. I guess it was (___) there sometime or another for the cavalry and it made wonderful hay.
Dyer: Was it really high on a 14, 15 hand high horse?
Coleman: Yeah, yep.
Dyer: Now do the mules burn off the end of an afternoon?
Coleman: No.
Dyer: Not burning at all, huh?
Coleman: No, *can’t understand* (8:47-8:50)
Dyer: Well one of the Lighting’s brothers was quite concerned about what was happening during his lifetime because I met him (___).
Coleman: Yeah (___) (___). I could tell you a lot of people *unintelligible* (9:00-9:05). It was all cleaned up.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Coleman: There wasn’t no brush at all. He used to come out there and you could see him for miles there; came back to meadow, but now growing up you gotta be 100 feet ready.
Dyer: Yeah.
Coleman: Now it needs to be clear; clear out of the all the way up to Dallas. There used to be all kinds of berries everywhere, wild strawberries and raspberries and a then up around happy hour they go up and (___) (___) buckets and (___) (___)…old dollar fruit cans. It came 39 (___). Get a dollar a bucket for them. Going down there (___) (___) and you go for a dollar a day and then you get (___) (___) and he’d have to bring (___) a dollar.
Dyer: Wild…
Coleman: Oh wild that’s another (___) (___). *unintelligible* (10:10-10:15). That summer back in the valley.
Dyer: What about orchards out there? Do they have one?
Coleman: They have apple orchards there. There’s (___) (___) and the finest orchards you’d ever find in your life right there. (___) cut it down and up at the stables up there, you know what they used to call them (___) those days? (___) (___) run up there except run the bear out of the trees (___) apples.
Dyer: The bear like apples?
Coleman: Oh yeah and (___) (___) used apples down there (___) (___). See the bears (___) them.
Dyer: Well they like berries don’t they?
Coleman: Wild animals.
Dyer: Well let’s talk about some of the other people that you remember out there, Frank. Now you weren’t very old when Liam Hutchings died. I think he died about 1902.
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: Now do you remember where your father talked about the sawmill…
Coleman: Oh yeah.
Dyer: …the writings (___) about the valley.
Coleman: I did…I remember when he used to tell us how (___) (___) every fall he did when he got home. (___) (___) a couple weeks.
Dyer: Was he related to you on (___)…
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: …(___) (___).
Coleman: No, no, no, no he was adopted by then. *unintelligible* (11:47)…was adopted by then and they didn’t. *can’t understand* (11:57). When he was here, he was an Indian (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: Huh and we talked about the runner before.
Coleman: Before…old runner and he was brought up by the white man.
Dyer: Did you ever see Hutchings sawmill?
Coleman: I seen the remains of it, never did see it in operation. I believe that they had some parts of it at the museum now.
Dyer: The Pioneer’s Museum now in Wawona.
Coleman: Yeah. (___) (___) (___).They left that stuff in a junk pile and get it and move it and they were times I think a few little pieces but not too much up of the mill, but (___) mill was a big mill.
Dyer: Was that Hutchings mill too…
Coleman: No…
Dyer: …or (___) mill?
Coleman: …no, no (___) but some guys…an individual. I heard my father say he was gonna save them. (___) (___) sergeant, he was quite a figure at that time. He’d come and go and come and go.
Dyer: Huh, who was he?
Coleman: He connected up with a vigilante someway, but he’d done a lot of operation in the park. I don’t know too much about him and his father’s keeper. Sergeant I was trying to think of his first moment. (___) killing everybody; popular man. (___) (___) (___) just a few of them. Copper and left around Madera now, you know, (___) along with the law.
Dyer: Now were you around while Leland Clark was there?
Coleman: Oh yeah. When I was a kid, you know, (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: But what was he doing in the valley while you…
Coleman: He…he (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: He became kind of a superintendent or a special guardian at first?
Coleman: Well they called him a guardian of (___) (___) (___) and commissioner. I guess he had a lot of confessions and stuff like that.
Dyer: So he was a man who really did what Major Benson had done?
Coleman: Yeah, yeah.
Dyer: Did he have any troops with him there and…?
Coleman: No, no.
Dyer: That was, um…
Coleman: (___) (___).
Dyer: Did you ever work for Leland Clark?
Coleman: Oh no, no I was too small.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Coleman: But I’d seen him out (___) and they have a little, big (___) where they coach somewhere around that museum (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh. Your brother-in-law, Eddie Webb, talked about that and was out there on tour one time and they were taping it and he was identifying some of the things. He mentioned it.
Coleman: Yeah the old (___) field. Had quite a swat down there in the valley.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Coleman: It makes me *unintelligible* (15:32)
Dyer: Paint Your Wagon?
Coleman: Yeah and trouble…(___) (___) (___) (___) wagon. You had pride on the front then.
Dyer: What about the Lydick family? They seem to be with a (___) (___).
Coleman: Oh yeah. I just think Charlie was quite (___) (___)…well he’s kind of a product you mixed up in everything. You look up and this fella is doing something crazy.
Dyer: I think he was a ranger for many years.
Coleman: Yeah a long time.
Dyer: But when he…
Coleman: *can’t understand* (16:13)
Dyer: …when he finally retired, he was rather bitter about his experience self but…
Coleman: When you trapped him, (___) (___).
Dyer: Might be, huh.
Coleman: No, (___) (___) in fact those days he was just a good guy. I’m not trying to amount with somebody in the military (___) (___) (___) Park, never to return; and then he went and got some (___) and left the money in the mushroom and I do remember that treatment.
Dyer: He talked a lot about rattle snakes in the valley and on one of the tapes recorded interview that park conducted some years ago. Was it a problem?
Coleman: Oh I guess it was (___) (___) ball park in the country in there (___) (___) some years and others in (___) and probably (___) (___). Next four or five years I hadn’t seen him. Last time I’d seen him was right there and I had to (___) (___). Getting pretty close to the house…too close right there (___) (___) I don’t know whether the fire killed them off…whether it built up or something. We had a big fire through again. That fire burned (___) clear across the country. *unintelligible* (17:47). Because all they did was probably just (___) (___) black.
Dyer: Around the whole rawhide…
Coleman: Oh yeah it burned for years and Lincoln Lantern…all down (___) (___) (___) Chinese Camp.
Dyer: Hmm..
Coleman: Yeah that’s where I learned that Boleague was no good. The fact that there (___) (___) to Chinese Camp. They’re trying to use (___) and couldn’t leave him. Show you the driver’s license. The truck would void the (___) and god damn the rest of it had to void.
Dyer: Pretty hard on him, huh?
Coleman: Yeah pretty hard on him and the roll of thundering was pretty hard on him (___) (___).
Dyer: I guess it’s meant for fires and not the people.
Coleman: Yeah that’s what the gun and another half of that way, we were called out on the fire we always wondered if you got that balm aid on you it’ll (___) and say (___) (___) (___) couldn’t get it on you and you see that old (___) (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: Some time ago, you talked about the Digmen family and you must’ve known members of the Digmen family…
Coleman: (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: What was the Digmen’s interest in the valley?
Coleman: A (___) house and a bakery; homemade bread and they got that little church there in the valley.
Dyer: Well that…oh the little old church there?
Coleman: Well and then they (___) (___) (___). They don’t even like that. The only people that liked it aren’t around.
Dyer: Huh.
Coleman: It’s a funny (___) (___) (___). You got six acres in that patented ground.
Dyer: Well you were brought up with one of the Digmen boys?
Coleman: Oh yeah.
Dyer: Tell me that.
Coleman: The doctor’s house.
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Coleman: He lived in the park.
Dyer: Is he a medical doctor?
Coleman: Yeah. He married Marian in the middle of the war. (___) got his practice.
Dyer: His practice in the first world war?
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: Well did you used to go out with the Digmen boys, to work with them or…
Coleman: Well either you go to work or you have plows. In the garden, you have you have that darn meadow afterwards, you bring the milk in or the milk from the orange wagon; just like it. (___) (___) always look like him. (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: Well so most of it went to the public and the milk, and (___)…*Coleman interrupts* (20:57)
Coleman: (___) (___) to the public there.
Dyer: Public too?
Coleman: Yeah they tell you and then the bakery (___) (___).
Dyer: That must’ve been (___) *Coleman interrupts* (21:05)
Coleman: What?
Dyer: That must’ve been good business.
Coleman: Oh it was good business.
Dyer: You ever try to grow any grains in the valley?
Coleman: Oh yeah.
Dyer: Wheat?
Coleman: Oh we do a…a *unintelligible* (21:16-21:22). Bob (___) used to farm that all of that grain *can’t hear* (21:26-21:29).
Dyer: What about some of the presidents? Now you mentioned earlier that…
Coleman: Oh Captain?
Dyer: Captain.
Coleman: Well (___) (___) to use that. I was afraid that he was the president when he was in there. I didn’t even know (___) (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: He probably was.
Coleman: The Captain it didn’t matter if you called him “Cap”. Frank (___) used to (___) (___) (___) and he didn’t (___) (___) by hand (___) down the hill.
Dyer: Now he was a pretty big man…
Coleman: Oh yeah.
Dyer: …did he know how to ride or he was too heavy to ride?
Coleman: He was too heavy to ride down the hill. Couldn’t keep the pouch out of the (___) of the saddle.
Dyer: And how…*Coleman interrupts* (22:23)
Coleman: He was about 60 inches out of the waistline.
Dyer: He was an enormous man.
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: Did he have a chance to be with the party as they went around or…
Coleman: Who Rusty? No, no he decided he had to back with the brush *unintelligible* (22:39-22:53)
Dyer: So you did follow them around and watch…
Coleman: I came off down the hill and (___) parking and $4 a mule (___) paralyzing.
Dyer: What about Teddy Roosevelt? Do you remember seeing him in the valley?
Coleman: Oh yeah.
Dyer: He was down here I think…probably was out there.
Coleman: Pioneer man (___) (___) (___) in the valley (___) (___) (___) (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: Well he was brought up in the west and up in the big sky country I think there on a kind of to recover his health and so he was aware of riding…*Coleman interrupts* (23:52)
Coleman: Oh yeah he was a big military man, but they don’t (___) (___) they write it.
Dyer: Uh-huh…well I bet you knew the Curry family a little bit better?
Coleman: Oh yeah (___) (___).
Dyer: (___) ferry?
Coleman: Yeah (___) ferry, (___) (___) and (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Coleman: Brand new (___). When we were (___) (___) doing all the (___) (___) heavy clothes on…fact (___) (___) (___) and we bartered it there and we’d come right in (___) (___) some guy looking through the glass, you know, with one eye.
Dyer: It’s a monoco?
Coleman: A monoco you (___) (___) (___) and if you didn’t like it, you (___) (___) you was a working man and you had to (___) to the (___).
Dyer: Uh-huh.
Coleman: (___) (___) he was a working man. He knows that he…
Dyer: You probably got quite a few European visitors and…
Coleman: Oh yeah, yeah.
Dyer: Was there a one-eyed Monaco man?
Coleman: Yeah…and I once spent my time riding up there (___) (___). *wind blowing in the background* (25:08-22:17)…and I’d get a drink of water *can’t understand* (25:20-25:28). A cup will give you drink of water. (___) (___) if you give them a drink. *unintelligible* (25:30-25:42. And I got that in the four miles (___) (___).(___) sounded like those put a hundred dollar gold piece in my pocket (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: A hundred dollar gold piece?
Coleman: Yeah that’s right my father used to…and I’d never been in there and there (___) (___) for a dollar for it and take a piece (___) (___) (___) (___) (___).
Dyer: He must’ve been a prominent European then.
Coleman: He must’ve been.
Dyer: You never needed money?
Coleman: No, no, no…(___) you was high and mighty when you had a dollar (___) (___).
Dyer: Wasn’t even looking.
Coleman: No *unintelligible* (26:23-26:30) doesn’t even talk to him. (___) kind of freak. Oh that (___) (___) (___) (___) and he’d get off and saddle off and he’d…
Dyer: Well Mike said that (___) (___) (___) (___).
Coleman: Oh yeah you know *unintelligible* (26:57) He couldn’t pass him back. Oh it was nothing like telling (___) used to settling down with him.
Dyer: It must’ve been difficult for the working man with women very prominent people…
Coleman: Yeah.
Dyer: …in the valley.
Coleman: And down in the valley (___) (___) if he’s organized.
Dyer: But, uh, that wasn’t the case at the Curry camp though?
Coleman: No, no in fact it wasn’t…it was lighting up the same table and if they didn’t like it, they could leave.
Dyer: Do they still have their tents sitting there?
Coleman: Yeah. (___) (___) (___) wonderful man…oh wonderful. He’d have them hard make 100 in the morning…evening. A little (___). He’d have it up there a mile high. Quite a thing I guess.
Dyer: And that’s when he had the firepole?
Coleman: All from the firepole. Tim McCrosby up there and wake all those people in the tent. People didn’t sleep in there like they do now, you know, they’re up at five o’clock.
Dyer: Well I’ve heard that Perry was…didn’t believe in the old saying that the customer’s always right.
Coleman: No, no (___) (___). No he’s a wonderful man (___) (___).
Dyer: And he used to…*Coleman interrupts* (28:28)
Coleman: (___) (___) good things…(___) (___) (___) which happens whenever I think of it. Fifty-thousand and it changed into something else. Someone take (___) or an eight.
Dyer: And she married the (___). I remember (___) to Stanford University (___) (___)
Coleman: Yeah. He was a nice man but he had lots of (___) you know (___) (___).
Dyer: Huh.
Coleman: Kind of a wild, crazy, looking…looking all confused (___) (___). He (___) (___) (___) (___) (___). I know he was a *unintelligible* (29:10-29:18) got something else in their mind.
Dyer: Yeah.
Coleman: They looking for it.
(29:23-end is blank)