AGNES BLACK: …start out…

RICHARD DYER: Well, let me see if I have this right, Mrs. Black; the school was actually, then, divided by sliding doors or sliding partitions into separate room?

BLACK: They were doors, and they were certainly large, beautiful, big doors.  You don’t even see them now.  They’re different type of thing.  But they were doors, and they slid back onto the partition.  They were very think doors to stop the sound, I suppose, for when they were closed so that the two rooms could be divided without hearing a noise. But when they were opened, they slid back in the wall and one teacher, then, could take care of the two rooms.

DYER: Well, this is certainly a practical way for a poor school district to solve one of their problems.

BLACK: Well it was there and, however, I’m not sure that it was the teacher and the Board of Trustees thought, or whether it might have been the architects plan.  It was there and on the Fridays, if we had singing or music then those doors were opened so that the four grades, in those two rooms on that side of the hall, could be taken care of by the one teacher.  And then the upper grades were on the other side of the hall and the same thing was required there.  And especially if the artwork was done on the board—on the blackboard—then both of those rooms could see clear through to that far blackboard.  And they were great, huge blackboards on the wall; so if the teacher did any drawings, or anything, for the children to all take note for classes, then it was given by that one teacher that might have been an art teacher or she might have been the music teacher.  So, whichever teacher did that, the classroom was opened for all the four grades to see.

DYER: This must have made it practical for any evening programs.  Yes it was.  It was very very good. I must mention the teacher...when she started at Standard School, he name was Ms. Peas.  Now, this was a little bit later, about World War I time.  And she was artistic and musical both and sang.  She taught us to sing, she taught us to play, and she taught us artwork.  She was a very fine teacher.  I n later years, she married to Mr. Davis who was a county tax collector for many many years.  He has recently passed away, but she was the art, music, and singing teacher.

DYER: did she have programs for adults?

BLACK: No.  But she had programs for the children at Christmas time, Easter time, and all, and that’s when all the parents came or the community came to hear it. 

DYER: they were entertainment.

BLACK: yes, entertainment.

DYER: Spelling bees?

BLACK: Oh, yes.

DYER: Did you ever have spelling bees?

BLACK: Spelling bees…they were, oh, at least three or four time a year we had a large spelling bee and that’s where we won our prizes.  We were quite pleased with a prize that we won if it was a bowed ribbon or a few handkerchiefs, or something.  We were very happy to receive a prize for winning in the spelling contest.  And I might say I was good at spelling because I won many prizes in that.  And another thing I remember so well and so clear at school in those days, Curtis Creek had a large area where picnics could be held; and every years at the end of school we had our picnic right beside the schoolhouse and all the parent came with picnic lunch. And then there was races—sack races—all kinds…pie eating contests…watermelon…all sorts of contests and especially racing.  And my father was very great for sports.  And there would be nothing to do, but every one of us had to enter in the races or the jumping, or the sac racing, or whatever might have been.  Ad I remember very well, there was a fence around Curtis Creek School and at the time we would run races, we had to be out on the road to run the race, so someone would stand down so that what little traffic did come through, they had to stop until the children’s race was over.  And I remember very well, one time, my age group was running, and I had on a pair of high-button shoes and my…

DYER: Running in high-button shoes.

BLACK: And my father...my mother bought the shoes for me that morning because we were all supposed to be dressed in nice little dresses and nice little shoes.  So my mother bought the high-top button shoes.  They were (____) on the bottom, velvet on the top, and I told my father I couldn’t run with them because they were too tight.  He said, “You run to run.” So right over the fence he out me.  And I ran, and believe it or not, I won the race—new shoes and all.  So I won a big bow of brown ribbon for my hair with a clasp on it. And those things are so clear to me that I just hope that children today can remember the good times that they might have had, even though their different than what we had in school.

DYER: That’s real good advice.  What about the boys—your brothers—were they involved in any kind of inner school sports?

BLACK: Yes they were.  They were all…Ronald—my brother just older than me—was especially good in running, and boxing, and basketball.  We had all the sports that they have today, but there weren’t too many children, so it just put a few in each group. But baseball…Curtis Creek School was very outstanding in baseball and track—and running—all recess. 

DYER: Did they have any of these for the girls, so that the girls would compete with other schools?

BLACK: No.  We weren’t allowed to compete because it was just too hard to get the girls there.  There was no buses, so the girls couldn’t be out on their own to go to school in those days…to go to participate.  Their parents, or someone, would have to take them.  And it was just too hard for the girls to go, but the boys—well, there was only one or two schools they could participate  because it was too far to go by horse and buggy.  So it meant that they just played among themselves.  They divided up teams and that’s about the extent of Curtis Creek and most of the school in the county because there was no way to go. 

DYER: Agnes, why don’t you tell us what the well dressed girl wore to school.

BLACK: Well, about…you might say, about thirteen years old when she’s in the eighth grade?

DYER: that’s just fine—thirteen.

BLACK: Well, thirteen I can remember very well.  Dresses, they were sort of plain, but still, there had the little ruffly lace around the neck and the sleeves and there was no sleeveless dresses.  They were all either long sleeves or elbow length, and the skirts were at least to the knee for thirteen-year-old girls—below the knee or in the middle of the knee.  There was no short short dresses at that time. And what seemed very strange—or it would to a girl now—we had to wear hats…

DYER: …not a cap, but a hat?

BLACK: No, it was a little hat. It was more like uh…you might call it a poke bonnet—that’s what they called them.  They were…not a sun bonnet…but they were a little hat that came out in the front, and the top was sort of full.

DYER: …a brim around it?

BLACK: yes, it was a brim—something like a sun bonnet, only it was stiff.  It had a wire, a stiff wire, under it to hold the brim out.  But the top was sort of floppy like and it was full. Many of the girls wore hats to school and if they had ties under their chin, to hang them up they would tie the bow back up again after they took it off, and hung it up on the hanger there and it would just hang in the closet room.  But our dresses were rather pretty; in fact, we had some very nice material at that time and the ribbons, the small hats, and full slinger dresses, and full skirts were about the thirteen-year-old age at that time.  And right now I’d like to show you a picture of thirteen and fourteen-years-old girls Mr. Dyer…

(Dyer pauses the interview to look at the picture)

DYER: Well, we just saw a very interesting picture of Curtis Creek School in 1915-16??

BLACK: about that time. 

DYER: …and it looks like there are several dozen students and two teachers from grade one through grade eight.  Well, we’re still describing what the proper young lady wears and we’ve got down to her socks, I guess…or what did you call them?

BLACK: …stockings.

DYER: oh, they’re real stockings.

BLACK: yes, they’re stockings.

DYER: no bobby socks then?

Blacks: No bobby socks. They were stockings and they were above the knee and they were not very like stocking either; they were more or less Lyell stockings, you might call them.  That’s what they call them in those days—they were Lyell stockings; there was no silk stockings.

BLACK: The teachers might have had a nice silk stocking. I think I can remember Mrs. Daily wearing nice looking stockings and lovely dresses. She did wear…her dresses were about, oh, half way down the calf of her leg.  And she usually wore a skirt with a wide belt and a fluffy blouse with a high neck and long sleeves.  And that was supposed to be a well dressed teacher at that time. 

DYER: Prim and proper, huh?

BLACK: Yes, very much so. And…

DYER: What about shoes now?

BLACK: Shoes? Well, some of the girls were fortunate enough to have those little slippers with the strap across the instep and it buttoned.  And then some of the girls that they folks were able to get them any slippers, then they had to wear high-topped shoes with buttons all the way up.  And my shoes were buttoned on the side, and they buttoned about, oh, inch above the ankle; and that was the high-topped shoes.  And then in the summer time we wore just plain little sandals.  And there weren’t open sandals so much, like they are now that go in your toe—between your toe—, they were two-strap sandals.

DYER: Well, Agnes, do you feel you were cheated in your education?

BLACK: Not one bit.  If I had had my mother with me longer, I’m sure I would have gone clear through school-high school and all.  I went two years to high school and then had to help with family things after my mother passed away.  So I don’t feel that I was a bit cheated and I feel like I’m learning something every day.

DYER: Yeah, it sounds like the idea of a way to go to school.

BLACK: yes, I might add, while we’re talking about school, after walking two miles to school—to Curtis Creek—and two miles home, when I started my first years of high school, which was in June of 1922, I walked to Standard to the train depot, took the train to Hail’s and Simon’s, and walked from Hail’s and Simon’s to the high school.  At three o’clock, when we were out, or three-twenty, out of high school, I walked back to the Hails and Simon’s Depot again, took the train to Standard, and walked home.  So that made two, four, five miles or more.  Every day to school it was two miles up, two miles back, and about a mile from Hail’s and Simon’s to the high school.

DYER: So you spent most of the daylight hours going to school, or being in school, or coming from school.

BLACK: That’s right.  And we rode almost a year on the train from Standard to Sonora High School. And then, finally, Sonora High School purchased two or three busses—one to go to Soulsbyville and picked up all the children on Standard and on the way down, and one to Jamestown, and out the back road from Jamestown.  There were two busses.  And most of you know Beverly Ben, he was the bus driver for our area.  And…

DYER: Also the football coach, wasn’t he?

BLACK: He was the football coach, and he was a fine teacher, or a fine coach, I should say, and then later became vice principle of Sonora Union High School. He was a fine teacher and a fine pupil; he went right on through.

DYER: Now, let’s see; that would be from 1921…?

BLACK: Uh ha. From the time I graduated from grammars school.

DYER: …until, how many years did you spend there? Four years?

BLACK: Two.  No, I only went two years to high school.

DYER:…to 1923.

BLACK: Yes.

Fyer: And was the highs chool at the site where it is now located?l.

DYER: …until, how many years did you spend there? Four years?

BLACK: Two.  No, I only went two years to high school.

DYER:…to 1923.

BLACK: Yes.

DYER: And was the high school at the site where it is now located?

BLACK: Yes.  The administrati0n building now was the only high school;.  It was our full high school building.  We had all the rooms there, accept the gymnasium was where it is now, but it was a different type of a building all together than you have there today.  And then soon they built the shop down right by where the tennis court is now, I believe.  And there was a shop and the administration building was the high school. And then in later years, of course, they added so much more.   But I managed to go two years, and I don’t blame anyone but myself for not finishing, but since I have been out, I kept on reading and studying as much as I can.

DYER: How large was Sonora High School that time? 

BLACK: I believe they had about possibly 180 children there.  I don’t believe there was any more.  It might have been during World War I, I believe they might have gotten as far as 200 children. There couldn’t be very many more that that because there was only about six rooms in the whole building.

DYER: So, actually you remember the Curtis Creek School better than you do the high school.

BLACK: Yes.  Yes, I was there for longer, of course. 

DYER: Well, I’m sure you had a few chores when you returned from school.  Why don’t you tell out people who are listening to the tape what a country girl does when she comes home from school.

BLACK: Well, most of my chores were I the house.  As much as I like to be outside all my life, I did have to help my mother.  And a lot of it was washing dishes and helping with baking.  I did a lot of helping with the baking and the cooking and setting the table.  That was one of my first chores as a little girl was to set the table and to set it properly, I mean.  It wasn’t just the knives and forks and spoons on one side of the plate; it was set them like a table should be set.  And I was taught good manners and good, I might say, table setting, and cooking from the time I was a very small girl I helped in the kitchen when I had to stand up on the chair to help at the kitchen table.  But I helped…my first baking opportunity was rolling out pie crust.  My mother made the pie crust and I was taught to roll it to fit the pie tin. And the next job was to learn to peel and cut the apples. Then, from then on, I just helped with all other cooking and the washing.  We had no facilities of washing other than the wash board and the old round tub.  So that where I learned to wash clothes was on the washboard and during the summer it was canned fruit.  So I had learned topple fruit, and learned how to make the syrup to cook the fruit.  And from the time I was a girl of eight or nine, I’ve helped in the kitchen.  And then after my mother passed away, then it was my job to help take care of the whole kitchen.  My father helped me a little bit, but he had other chores and it was just put on my shoulders to cook.   From the time I was thirteen, I have cooked and canned food until this very day.

DYER: Well, since your mother passed away , while you were relatively young, I’m sure that this meant that you were in charge of the household chores before high school…before you became a high school student. 

BLACK: Yes.  See, I was still in the eighth grade when my mother passed away; and it was “go to school and come home” and it was “bake biscuits and cook hotcakes.”  We had no store to go to get bread all the time, so on Saturdays it was bread baking day.  And I’m telling you, homemade bread didn’t long around four boys.  They just wouldn’t leave it, so it meant that a couple of boxes of bread had to be made and my father did help me with it as much as he could, but I can remember making bread when I was fourteen and fifteen, in the summer time, and I would like to be like other girls and go swimming and horseback riding, and I remember very clearly leaving the bread on the stove—on the back of the stove—to raise where it was warm, and when my father came in the house, he found the bread raising over the pan.  So he had to work it down, and when I got home I really did get it for leaving the bread to not make it into loaves and bake it before I went away.   So it was many years until I was eighteen that I baked, and cooked, and washed for this family of six children and my father.  And, of course, as the boys got older, thy naturally ran away and went to work; but it was a household chore for me ever since I was thirteen years old.

DYER: you’ve always had an interest in your garden and flowers, shrubs, trees…did that start when you were a young girl?

BLACK: Oh yes, I should say.  My mother taught me to plant flowers in pots when…geraniums, of course, was one of the old flowers and we had several pots f geraniums on the porch all summer long and they bloomed so pretty.  And I suppose I’ve been just a natural for flowers and gardening all my life.  She taught me how to plant and how to plant from other potted plants and I’ve been doing it ever since.

DYER: In addition to all of these activities, I’m sure you’ve found time to squeeze in a few favorite things that a girl does when she’s looking for entertainment.   What did you do in your free time?

BLACK: well, one of my favorite sports was riding horseback.  We didn’t have a real riding horse, but we took the horses that were on the ranch and rode them.  So my neighbor girlfriends and I rode many hours on horses.  And swimming—we only had creeks and the lake here—Lombard’s Lake to swim in.   And we really made use of our summer time in swimming and horseback riding.  And for dancing, and fun such as that, and parties, our main dances were held in the father’s barns, mostly.  We had one barn dance we used to go to was out in Algerine area.  It’s Mr. and Mrs. Cornell have the ranch now, but it was called the Old Tom Sutton Ranch.  And it had a beautiful barn and a lovely floor in it.  And, of course, the many years of storing the hay in there made it smooth and a nice dance floor.  So, we would go out there and our neighbors—if my folks didn’t take me—our neighbors went, and we we’d go in, not a horse and buggy, but it was like a two-seated wagon, you might say.  It wasn’t a surrey, it was a spring wagon.

DYER: oh, a spring wagon.

BLACK: A spring wagon was what it was called.  And our neighbors had a girl from here a (___) girl; and we all went to the dance s and they dance from nine ‘till twelve, or nine ‘till three.

DYER: three in the morning?!

BLACK: …three in the morning.  When the dancers stopped it was three in the morning and it was practically light on our way home.   So lots of time I stayed with the girls so that we wouldn’t have to walk from our neighbor’s home.  But we had dances here all the time and down at Rawhide, Tuttletown we had dances.   And then Mr. Gorsel, just a mile down the road, had, what he called, an apple house; and he kept the floor smooth all year.   And so during the summer before the apple crop was to be packed away and used, we had the dances there. 

DYER: Now, that’s on Ward’s Ferry Road?

BLACK: It’s on the old Ward’s Ferry Road. And I dance d all my life in the dances all throughout the county wherever they were. 

DYER: now, would that be square dancing?

BLACK: no.  We did some square dancing, but most of it was the regular ballroom dancing.

DYER: …ballroom dancing.

BLACK: Yes.  I did do a little square dancing, but more of ballroom dancing than anything.  And then we started over to Columbia after cars became more available and my brothers had cars, we dance at the old outdoor pavilion down in the area which is now used for the stage coach rides over in Columbia.  It’s down in that low area.  And they had a very five open-air dance floor and it was hard for the people and the young fellow and girls to wait for the open-air dancehall in Columbia. They had wonderful times there and many of them came from Angels and Calaveras County to dance at Columbia because it was a fine dancehall.

DYER: And, of course, that would be with a live band. 

BLACK: Oh yes.  Yes.  And the bands or music at Tuttletown or Rawhide were provided by a family by the name of Roblins—Steve and Jonie Roblin and Carol Roblin.  They’re son played for the Rawhide and stamped and Tuttle town schools. They had piano or organ—whichever might have been in the school—and a guitar.  And they had fine music for the dancing and they picked right up with the music of the day.  They learned it all and played very well for dancing at that time. 

DYER: Did the young boys get as spirited as they sometimes get over at Columbia nowadays?

BLACK: Oh, it wasn’t so easy for the boys to get the beer or liquor that they do today.  But those that could get it kept it in their car and of course very few of the girls were allowed to have any.  If they did, it was some of the girls that weren’t (____) drink a little bit, of you want to call it that.  But it was very moderate that the girls drank.  But the boys did get pretty well lit up sometimes and…but they weren’t rude or vulgar or anything.  Sometimes a fight started among the young people if one boy might go and ask another boy’s girlfriend to dance more than once or twice, then the other fellow might get a little bit angrty and if he did happened to be drinking, he’d get a little boisterous and may start a fight.

DYER: Many of the boys are noted for their beer bust today.  Did they have such a thing during this period that you were referring to here?

BLACK: Not very many because they had no way of carrying very much and they weren’t able to get very much.  If the boys going to the dance in the days that I went to the dances...they’d have to have some way to get into the saloons to get ti and they could not go in there until they were twenty-one.   And nowadays somebody else will go buy the eighteen-year-olds beer, but in those days you very seldom found anyone buying beer for young fellows because then you want what happened to them.

DYER: Well, wasn’t there a lot of homebrew made—wine…

BLACK: Well, it some families.

DYER: applejack, I guess.

BLACK: Well, Applejack, I imagine, and beer, but not very much.  I can remember the Eastmans, Richards, Timmons, Murphys , Peases,  Mayhalls, and many other families.  If they had beer in their homes, it was right there at home.  And if the boys got it, it was by sneaking in and getting it, because father knew how much beer was down there.  So…

DYER: What about the dance pavilion out at Phoenix Lake?

BLACK: on, Phoenix Lake, yes.

DYER: Was that a popular…?

BLACK: yes.  Very very popular.  It was a fine dance floor and it was a nice place to go.    And I do remember going there quite often and I didn’t, but I did see some girls older than myself and their boyfriends and they would leave the dance and then rent a boat and go boating in between the dances.  Of course, they were older.  Some of the older ones…I usually had to go with my neighbors after my mother passed away I did go to quite a few...

END OF TAPE

General Information:

Interviewer: Dyer, Richard

Interviewee: Black, Agnes

Name of Tape: Agnes Black on the Black Ranch (black_a_2_1)

When: 9/5/1973

Where: Wards Ferry Road

Transcriber: Ariella (3/5/09)