BESS CURTAIN:  I would just like to get your feeling of the town, what you remember about it.

BALL:  Well as I say said this is the one of our store as you see it says ………. Up at the top and it was established here in 18, 17 what did I say 86? 1876 they came down from Confidence and uh at time the store was built this was the main store building. Right now there is another home that has been built but when my grandfather and grandmother came down they lived in this part of the store, that was their home and just this part was the store itself. Then this was Roy Nichols, Evelyn’s husband but they weren’t married at that time

CURTAIN:  They worked there.

BALL:  They worked there for the store for many, many years and this was my dad and this was the way that all of our groceries were transported in this little old wagon with horses, we had loads of those.

CURTAIN:  And you would bring the groceries from where to your store in the wagon?

BALL:  They would come by train at first they came by stage from Oakdale I believe is where most of them came in by stage and they uh would be brought in that way. Then later on of course we had the train and it was down at uh it wasn’t even up as far as Black Oak Station it was down at the old Barron Ranch it came just that far and that was the limit of the train and it came up whenever we went to the Bay Area we had to go down to the Old Barron Ranch which is now umm the one that has the big swimming pool down there.

CURTAIN:  Where is the location?

BALL:  Clear on down through town down past um that have the big ranch out there now.

CURTAIN:  Is it over toward Tuolumne Road?

BALL:  It was built ohhh the Beauchamp’s originally had it do you know the one that I’m talking about now?

CURTAIN:  Yes

BALL:  That was the old Joseph Barron and that was my grandfather’s brother and they lived in that place. That was their home and we would always have to go there and get the train if we were going on to San Francisco.

CURTAIN:  Is this where it would end at this ranch?

BALL:  Yes at that time. Then it was extended beyond that. They had a little station down there

CURTAIN:  Yes, and did it come from Stockton?

BALL:  That I’m not sure of but I believe it was Stockton, yes because I know oh the flour would come from Knights Ferry they had this old mill there that was right next to the covered bridge.

CURTAIN:  Uh huh                       

BALL:  You’ve gone into Knights Ferry and you’ve seen that… yeah well that’s where our flour was milled and it would come up and it would be in huge sacks and barrels and all that sort of thing. The china that folks had that they would have on special at Christmas time came from Germany it was in barrels and it would be packed from Germany, which is one reason I suppose a lot of the people in this area have so much of the Bavarian China’s. So forth it came from that.

CURTAIN:   So these valuable things that we see in your home’s now

BALL:  A great many of them came in just that way and of course from the West Store too I’m sure they did the same thing too I can only speak for our own and of course I know that at Christmas time the place would take tables and put another table on top and it would be just ….. that they had more merchandise than they had room for display so they would keep stacking tables one on top of the other. That sort of thing I do remember um the mines around in the area deliveries were made with these big old wagons and some times in the winter months they’d have to have 4 horses in order to pull the wagons through the very, very muddy roads up in the old …. Mine and things of that sort.

CURTAIN:  Did these wagons have wooden poles or were they medal?

BALL:  They were wooden wheels with the iron bars on the outside part of it.

CURTAIN:  That was difficult to pull too on the roads that were available.

BALL:  They’d get ……. Into the dirt and then of course we used to have so much more snow in those days, now this just shows the amount of snow that we had and uh my grandfather at that, this was taken later (referring to a picture) because this was my old car but they would just have the horses and a sled and would drive the road to go to town. So people could walk there was no other way of going from one end of town to the other because the snow as you can see was always very deep. We didn’t have snow like that in these days.

CURTAIN:  It’s too bad we don’t get some. Now you said that you had this one this was in 1895 do you have the old one? This is the old original?

BALL:  Yes it looks just like this it has the same markings on it, it probably is the same one then.

CURTAIN:  Now this one..

2 Where did I have another, this is an old, old picture I think he was the man that took the picture.

CURTAIN:  And not the minister that you were talking about.

BALL:  He may have been the minister. (refers to another picture) this shows you see the way our roads were now this, this, this is the bridge down here, it was all wooden at that time and this is our house and this the house where we are now and this was the store right next door to where you came in and this is the old building where the folks stored their flour and chicken things, wheat for the chickens.

CURTAIN:  That’s on the side here? (referring to a picture)

BALL:  That was on the side down there its gone now though completely, plus there is another house right in here which you can’t see and it belonged to the Harry’s that is another old English family.

CURTAIN:  (points to person in a picture)

BALL:  That is uh Lenore she might have something Lenore and ….. Harry they are married and she is married to they have the oil thing at the end of Jamestown….. I can’t think right now. I hate to have you wasting all this time on me and I can’t think.

CURTAIN:  It doesn’t matter.

BALL:  And then if you notice this is a windmill which is no longer here (refereeing to a picture) which somebody was out in this area and there was a house up in the back there and there was a house here.

CURTAIN:  Now where there several windmills here in town?

BALL:  As far as I know this is the only one that I have seen a picture of so I do not know.

CURTAIN:  Did the other water come from wells or from did they.

BALL:  Wells and a few mills.

CURTAIN:  From a ditch?

BALL:  Yes that is the same situation that we have now the water we have now from a ditch, it’s all ditch water that we have in our pipes here, we have a spring right out in front, right out in front of our house and it was open to the um road and the people would come with their buckets and they would get their drinking water there.

CURTAIN:  is that spring still flowing?

BALL:  It is still there, there is still water in it but we hadn’t had it tested lately uh because now there are septics in the area so we have to be very sure about that so we don’t use that at all. Now this is the old school house (refers to a picture) the old original up here where this ……. Have you seen a picture of that?

CURTAIN:  No I think not. I took a picture yesterday.

BALL:  Old Soulsbyville School but it doesn’t have a date on it and at that time this was the big room where the upper 4 grades were and this was the primary where we all were because we were growing up. That was it

CURTAIN:  Those aren’t there anymore…

BALL:  It was stolen, we uh it was never we uh don’t know where it went or anything they were never able to locate it….

CURTAIN:  Do you have any idea how many children were going to school there when you were at the time you went to school?

BALL:  When I went to school, I could show you a picture it would give the number of them. Now do you have one of the hotel?

CURTAIN:  No I do not.

BALL:  That is my pride and joy I have another one somewhere that is much larger than that. That is the hotel and it was run my Mr. and Mrs. Curnow. That is Bill Curnow’s parents now Bill Curnow is the one that has the appliance store in Sonora.

CURTAIN:  Oh his parents huh

BALL:  They were the one’s that had that and

CURTAIN:  And it was located where?

BALL:  It was located now can I place you from here driving down, across the bridge and on up where the mobile home is I think you went there.

CURTAIN:  Yes

BALL:  Turn to the left there I mean follow the main road and where all of those.. on the left hand side right there where all of those plum trees and berry bushes and all that are on the left hand side, that is where it was.

CURTAIN:  I’ll have to look again.

BALL:  And right next door to it was the home of ….. and Lena Harry and their home they had also down here but they moved to this home so that was different what is Lenore’s name?

CURTAIN:  Is this before you get to the mill?

BALL:  This is before you get to the mill and this was the entrance to the I.O.G.T. Hall which was the old International Order of Good Tempers.

CURTAIN:  Oh ok.

BALL:  The old road went this way. I have a feeling that was where we had a Chinese wash place but I am not positive so I wouldn’t say for sure. The road comes around this way, turns around and went up to go past the mill and that is, that’s where it was, as you go past there and then beyond this you’d come up this way to make the turn to go out in front of the mill.

CURTAIN:  I see.

BALL:  And as you go, oh dear it’s so hard to tell when you don’t have pictures, as you would go. Now did Mrs. Nichols know about the Butcher Shop?

CURTAIN:  Yes she told me where the Butcher Shop was.

BALL:  And did she tell you anything about that?

CURTAIN:  No.

BALL:  Well there’s where our water situation started, that was Mr. Odges, he was a butcher and he lived in this big house right down here after you cross the bridge and make the turn there well that was Mr. Odges lived there and he had the Butcher Shop with uh all the slaughtering pens were up in back of uh where part of Willow Springs is now.

CURTAIN:  Oh they are, Willow Springs was a ranch?

BALL:  It was a ranch that belonged to the Soulsby’s and that is where Soulsbyville got it’s name cuz they had the big ranch up there and according to, the reason for all these mines I suppose you heard the reason for all of that? That Mr. Soulsby was supposedly bringing the cows in and kicked this rock from his path and it was gold.

CURTAIN:  Oh

BALL:  That is in my brother’s history that he went into so that is true, as far as I have been able to find out and it was called Soulsbyville and then the mines started coming in.

CURTAIN:  So there were people here before the mines?

BALL:  Oh yes there were people here.

CURTAIN:  It was a settlement.

BALL:  It was a settlement. My grandfather homesteaded this whole area, from here out to well the other road the other road that was there.

CURTAIN:  The highway?

BALL:  The highway and um it was homesteaded here he came from Cornwall, Towergrith  Cornwall. And uh

CURTAIN:  From where?

BALL: Towergrith I got this out because it was his uh

CURTAIN:  How do you spell that

BALL:  It is his obituary but it had these things on it and this paper is the old, this is my grandfather (referring to newspaper) and that is an old paper. The date was on it somewhere. Where did we see the date? Ada Francis sent this to me not very long ago she was going through her papers and found it, let’s see if I have it here. This paper it’s self is the thing I’m trying to find the date but I don’t have it right there. Toweregrith right here there’s Towergrith.

CURTAIN:  Can I take this paper and re-produce it on a um a um zerox?

BALL:  Yes I would be very happy to do it. Your very welcome to do that and this is as I say it is just his an obituary of his but it does give um where he came from and belonged to here and this …………………. Was supposed to be that you didn’t drink anything period and my grandfather was a very strong prohibitionist in fact he ran for the senate I believe on a as a avid prohibitionist I don’t think he got very far but at any rate it seems to me that’s what he did, your welcome to do it but I don’t know that well …………..

CURTAIN:  ……… reproduced so that it’s legible.

BALL:  And on this side it has a lot of things on it too but I’m looking for the date because Eva told me the date was on it somewhere we found it “starting the 16^th day of November 1912 is a trustee sale” (read from the back of the paper) So I suppose it would be close to that. Yes you’re welcome to this ……..

BALL:  So there were just a few ranchers in the area before this Mr. Soulsby found the gold and from then I presume people started.

CURTAIN:  Then people started coming in because uh this area was really developed my the Cornish miners because uh and that my grandfather was from Cornwall and most all the people that had come in had come from Cornwall because they came to work in the mines that was the thing they did mostly. Back in England and that is one reason for our Cornish Pasties I suppose you were told about that?

CURTAIN:  Just recently at the Methodist Church I ate my first Pasty and.

BALL:  Did you like it?

CURTAIN:  Yes it was very good and I enjoyed it, we wanted to come ever since we been here to have one of your dinners, one of their dinners but uh this is the first year and we enjoyed it very much. Both because it was new and interesting but because of the history of it.

BALL:  Well then you’ve heard about the fact that the Pasty was really developed for miners because they could take it in they used to take it in a little sack when they’d go down into the mines and it would fit into the sack and they would have their entire dinner.

CURTAIN:  I wondered why, was this, why the miners came from Cornwall to mine here? Did they think that this was a get rich quick thing? Was there reports of much gold in the area?

BALL:  It was in California I think the fact that California had the name of being such an immensely …….. rich area and I suppose that is the reason they came. I wouldn’t have any idea I haven’t thought about that. But that is true but these were all Cornish people that came here and it may be that they were all more or less related the people that came and by word of mouth

CURTAIN:  Cousin Jacks

BALL:  The cousin Jacks and the cousin Jeanie’s that’s what we were called I mean the

CURTAIN:  One told another

BALL:  Uh huh and it was just and they all came for more or less the same basic little area.

CURTAIN:  Because it wasn’t easy to come that distance like it is now.

BALL:  That’s true. They had to feel strongly about it.

CURTAIN:  And of course they were coming this way to start their roots again in another country. I wonder if you might find something too you maybe able to get something from uh oh dear Carne, Nadine Carne, Earnest Carne. Earnest Carne, I don’t know whether it’s Earnest Carne himself or his son uh they’re interested in history they may have a little something too because now Earnest well somewhere through his line his.. sister his grandmother was a sister of my grandfather and in other words more or less inter related and most people here in the town were inter related more or less just as Peral Richards she was Peral Nichols not the same as Evelyn a different family but Nichols you see.

CURTAIN:  They were both Nichols families?

BALL:  They were a different family entirely but um that’s probably the reason but who knows. And the West’s they were all and the Martin’s and I’m sure that so many of those people their all gone now they would have had wonderful tales to tell about coming here.

CURTAIN:  These are all Cornish people that you mentioned?

BALL:  All Cornish people and there was a town of all Cornish people.

CURTAIN:  They were miners.

BALL:  That’s what they did back in Cornwall see they were in the mines there. You were gona ask me some other things but I can’t seem to think of.

CURTAIN:  I was gona ask you then when we were talking about the Cornish people something about the family customs if you can remember? I’m sure coming from England it was you know, the United States is a melting pot they had different customs they did different things than maybe the some of the other people that came in?

BALL:  Well I think it’s mostly just the things that I would remember I uh I do know the way we had our Christmas I suppose that you’ve been told that where it was just a fam… thrill to get together of course we made our own recreation and entertainment here because we had no way to get out. If we were going to go for instance to a Sonora we would get up early in the morning very early in the morning and take our horses and the spring wagon and go if.. we had no telephones and um I have post cards that would be written to us from Sonora asking us a question “Please let us know by return mail” that sort of thing, I’m sorry I should have had some of those things for you.

CURTAIN:  No that’s all right. About how long did it take you to get this postcard from Sonora?

BALL:  I don’t know I suppose it would be mailed down there one day and we would get it the next.

CURTAIN:  And how did your mail come?

BALL:  By stage. Just the way we went to school the way I went to High School, by stage we went by um um a wagon and horses.

CURTAIN:  Mrs. Nichols said that part of the time she went to High School on the train?

BALL:  We’d go by stage from here we’d go by stage. They’d come and pick us up and in fact Lionel Richards this one you were talking about was the one who was the driver and he was a driver for um West Louis folks you know West …… the other store. And he would come around in the morning, dark and get all of those of us that were going to High School and would take us down to the Black Oak Station now that is not the one that was down at the ranch in other words it had gradually been built up into Tuolumne so the we would get the stage there, I mean we would get the stage here and get the train down there and go on into Sonora then walk from the station there, which was out at Hayles and Simons out to the High School. Walk back pick up the train at night and then get the stage they’d meet the train and bring us home at night.

CURTAIN:  Was the High School in the same location?

BALL:  Yes it was. It was the old building that they just knocked down so that wasn’t all that far along ago you know it’s not the real old history. I’m afraid we’ve lost most of our real old historians who could tell us how the town really got started and why it started here in this particular area. I don’t know.

CURTAIN:  Well actually the town started here because of the mines didn’t it?

BALL:  Yes that’s true but there were ranches here before according to this paper my grandfather, um well it doesn’t even say why they came down here, I thought perhaps oh yes there is a little piece here.

CURTAIN:  Does it tell you when your grandfather came here?

BALL:  It says he came to California to join his brother Joseph and Joseph is the one that had the ranch down below here and they encouraged him to engage in nothing till business on account of his lack of robust health that was my grandfather. So at any rate that is that’s the reason so ………. Working first that’s proof of that.

CURTAIN:  What do you remember about the mining?

BALL:  As I say you may get some other information from the Carne’s about that too because Earnest Carne’s relative I won’t say if it’s his what relative it was. Are you in a hurry? I’m not doing very good here.

CURTAIN:  I just wanted to know what………

BALL:  I hope you’ll be able to get that tape Mrs. Roads may know about it and if not you might get a lead on where it might be from …….. he is into all this sort of thing and he is very definitely into the Historical Society and he might tell you, but I do know that Bev had the tape and I’m sure he would have more than other than just the Chinese.

CURTAIN:  What do you remember about the Chinese?

BALL:  I remember very little about the Chinese I do know that their uh I remember the nice things of course, We’d take the laundry down and it would and it was down at the other end of town. Down beyond ohhh did I ever tell you about the old …….. house.

CURTAIN:  Oh yes Mrs. Nichols told me about it.

BALL:  She told you then about our lights that we had? How we had our lights from that ……?

CURTAIN:  What happened to it?

BALL:  I gotta finish Christmas first. Uh we would all get together and they would have an immense tree uh a community tree. They would cut the top off so that the branches went from the floor full clear to the top and then we would take our gifts there. The dogs were out my dog would be on that tree and all the other people and the shells, which was a very big item for the older people they would be spread out from the branches and everything was open so you wouldn’t have any idea, wonder if that doll is mine I wonder who was gona have the whatever was under the tree. No bicycles in those days but just hobby horses and that sort of thing, balls I suppose and kinds of games we had, jacks and most of the time we just played our own games cat finger and run around through the area. Then we would have,have that and we would have community singing and our Santa Clause in this in this building it had a stage always a program we had on this stage and I forgot there was one big window and our Santa Clause always came in through that window, we would hear him outside first on the little sleigh bells ringing coming up the shed back in that area and of course as far as we were concerned he was just coming with his reindeer and they were just landing out there as we were growing small. And he’d come through that and then go and climb down Ho Ho Ho you know all the way and we would distribute the presents.

CURTAIN:  And your tree was decorated with these gifts?

BALL:  With gifts and I suppose there were other things but I believe that the gifts were themselves were most of the things that were on the tree rather than tinsel or garland or things of that sort. And then we would always have the big get together there and that’s why I asked if she told you about the lights because I suppose at a time that the a time like that they would let the lights go as long as necessary but then we would have our lodge meetings there in the I.O.G.T. Hall and it was the community social place which was in here, I’m sorry I don’t have one to show but this was the our community place and it was also the lodge the I.O.G.T. Lodge and uh there is where we would have our parties and anything  other than our home parties we would have there as community gatherings and uh about 10 minutes to 12:00 Mr. Nichols the one that had the dining room down there would dim the lights they were gone and that meant you had ten minutes to get home so everyone would scurry around to find their wraps and be sure the fire was dampened down and everything was put together and if we’d had a community supper then we’d get our dishes and dash home and get our, try to get our candles lighted before the electric lights were turned off and they went off at 12:00 pm and if you weren’t home just in…..

General Information:

Interviewer:  Curtain, Bess

Interviewee: Mrs. Robert Ball

Name of Tape: Early [History of] Soulsbyville (ball_1_0)

When: 1973

Transcriber: Naomi (1/17/08) and Alden (2/27/08)

Transcribers Note: THIS TAPE DOES NOT TELL WHO THE AUTHOR IS NOR DOES IT TELL WHO THE INTERVIEWER IS. THE NAME ON THE LABEL IS BALL BUT THAT NAME IS NOT MENTIONED ONCE.

This file should be called Ball_r_1_0