Buckley:
This is part two of the interview with Mr. Jim Baker taken on May 11,
1973. Ok you said before that you worked
over on the…when Sierra was rebuilding a…using a Hetch-Hetchy branch and they
were rebuilding the O’Shaughnessy Dam in 1930s.
After you were through there, then what did you do; Sierra?
Baker:
That’s when I come back from…we got through fixing…
Buckley:
1930s?
Baker: I come back and worked out of
Jamestown; fired out of Jimtown, helper and then they…then they pull…they
bought the big engine, the 36, and that put us out of a job, so then (___) says, “You can go down to Oakdale and fire for
Bill McCollum.”
Buckley:
And that was in late 1930s?
Baker:
Well that was in the…a little before the 30s I think because Taylor come
here around ’32; before he come…a little before the 30s.
Buckley:
Well I mean in like in 19…I’ve been listening now from 1934 and in 1938
they rebuilt the dam, erased it or something.
Sierra ran their train over the…
Baker:
Well that’s the time…that’s a time…uh-huh that’s right. I was…well my guys will take it all
back. We…Taylor was here at that time
when we raised the dam and the…I was, at that time, let’s see…when Taylor
pulled the job off on Angels, I laid around three months and then they got the
job to raise the dam and I went over there with Swanson. Him and I went over
to start pulling the stuff out and they didn’t like us on the job, so they put
Joe Cavenaro over there. And I went over to Joe Cavenaro
for a while, then they put the job on the study and I was over with a helper
job. Bill McCollum got the job. We were
all working every day and we stayed at Hetch-Hetchy junction; and we ride back
and forth to work. And we working the
other (___) then he stopped the dam, hauled up
‘til May 3rd, and they pulled the job off.
And then I come on back and I got off that and
my gosh I think that I went back in the shop after that. I went back in the shop. Taylor had already pulled Angels (___) and was only running one crew. There was two crews
running it.
Buckley:
Uh-huh.
Baker:
But we had one and I went back at the shop.
Buckley:
That one train they were running, was it a freight train or mixed train?
Baker:
Mixed train; he cut it down to a mixed train.
Buckley:
Where did it tie up at nights?
Baker:
Tuolumne.
Buckley:
And what do you mean two crews?
You mean one took it to Oakdale and one (___) back?
Baker:
Well they divided the crews up after they pulled the job off, see, down
in Oakdale, see. That crew was down in
Oakdale. Then they put them up there at, you know, up
there in big turns around at the…
Buckley:
Who were the two engineers?
Baker:
Well one’s Joe Cavenaro and Bill McCollum in
one crew and Frank Miller and followed by Harry Nichols was (___) for it.
Buckley:
How about George Wright? When did
he fire?
Baker:
Well that George Wright; that was long before Taylor ever come, see. George
Wright (___) was here for a long time. He was here when we built the Don Pedro
there, and he left right around…close to when (___)
(___) Don Pedro.
Buckley:
I see; because according to the book, he ran the last passenger train.
Baker:
Oh no…
Buckley:
…and
I figured…
Baker:
No, no, no Miller ran it for a long time after he did.
Buckley:
It wasn’t…
Baker: They had a passenger, regular
train there all the time when Taylor (___) (___), see,
and I was down in Oakdale firing for McCollum and had a crew all up in
Tuolumne, see, and we used to (___) and chain and
Miller was running the passenger train then, see. Harry Nichols was running the other train (___).
Buckley:
Was Jim Burgess the conductor?
Baker: Jim Burgess was conductor with
Wright and Miller.
Buckley:
What did Al Marino do during this time?
Baker:
Well (___).
Buckley:
He was Sierra then?
Baker: Well Al Marino…he…I told you
before Al was fired here. That’s when I was over in Angel’s branch,
see. I was over there in with the guys
and in the two brakemen and a conductor; one was Roy Rogers and I don’t know
who the two brakemen was but they went down into Lime
Kiln and they put some two or three cars out on the main line and when
they went in to get some more cars in the Lime Kiln,
they went by them and come down here and turned over right up here by the…this
motel…this motel (___) (___).
Buckley:
Uh-huh.
Baker:
Well they turned over that three car loads a line went over there. Well then they fired…they fired the three…the
brakemen and the two…eh the conductor and two brakemen and Al Marino was fired
from Bill McCollum at the time, so they put Bill McCollum back firing and laid
Marino off. And at that time, Marino
went up to Westside. He went up there
and stayed and then when they pulled that crew off, they used to have us come
over from Angle’s branch and pick up the cars that we left over going through the Tuolumne used 12 passengers.
They usually had a coach, so (___) (___) (___) you
could ride it if you wanna and we used to go to
Tuolumne and come back. We did everything while running and we’d always come
back early enough to catch the freight and get our train and go over to
Angels. That was all for quite a while.
Then when…after ’21….around ’21 I think or...yeah just before…I went over to
the…that was…he…I didn’t want to stay over there because we were working seven
days a week, see, and I was single at that time. (___) (___) at
that time I’ll teach it all that, but (___) (___)
(___). I went over to…I went…yeah
I just thought I’d come back in ’19. I
went over with that shop in a (___) and he
couldn’t keep up. I’m driving over and
that’s why we were working seven days a week (___) I
didn’t want it, so then I come on back…I come on back, they put on another
crew. They were gonna
put on…they put another plate crew on it in Tuolumne, so I knew it, I heard
about it and so I wouldn’t have to (___). He didn’t give me a chance. So he I got off the Angel branch and I went
to Tuolumne and I was up there firing for Tom Wallet
and Al Marino come back after I left up there.
I went up there and stayed awhile and then they put (___) one down and they started (___)…they (___) (___) Don
Pedro Dam.
Buckley:
Well I guess around 1938 or something they took off the passenger train
and the mix train and they just had one freight train a day after that.
Baker: Yeah that (___) (___).
Buckley:
And then after the Depression was over in the Westside and Pickering
started operations again then ran up on more trains again let’s say around 1938
or ’39.
Baker:
(___) (___) (___). I think they did. (___) was
taken, they put a crew. They just had
one (___) (___) seemed pretty tough, they only
had one train running. They had to have
the mixed train and then they put Harry Nichols up there and (___) (___) (___) (___) and all the crew they put out was…it’s
been so quite a while ago (___) (___).
Buckley:
Yeah.
Baker:
and I went down…I was on the Angels branch when they pulled the crew off
down in Oakdale. They told me to night watcher and they put Angels (___), so I went over there for a while and then they
pulled the job off and we ran out of Jimtown over in the back at night. We worked four hours a day. We did that for quite a while and then he
pulled the job off altogether.
Buckley:
Who are some of the other firemen who fired for Gus Swanson in the 1920s
and 30s? Do you remember any of them?
Baker:
Who fired for him? Waldo Bernard.
Buckley:
Who is Waldo Bernard?
Baker:
Well he was a firemen yearlong…he
was a firemen here before he went to service.
He went to service in 19…1917 or ’18…yeah it was ’17 or ’18 like that
and he was firing for Gus there for a while and then when he went to the
service, he didn’t come back. He went
over to Groveland and worked for the city of Frisco. He was over there for a while and he come
back over here doing and works for the (___). He
stayed there (___).
Well afterwards I left, see.
He come…and when…when I went over and bumped
him that time, he was…they put him night watch (___).
Buckley: Oh.
Baker:
And he stayed there (___) for a little
while and then he got a job with PG&E and he went with PG&E over there
in Palo Alto and he left the railroad at that time.
Buckley:
How about Bill Scott? Did he work
for Sierra over in the Angels branch?
Baker:
Well Scott relieved me at the time that I come over and went to
Tuolumne.
Buckley:
Oh.
Baker: He would come over and relieve
me over there on the job and then…I was over there…he was over there for a
while and I was down, at that time, when he was over there. I went down over Cooper
town and was helping running the helper down there out at Cooper town and while…quite a while after that, he
come down and he fired for me out of Cooper town.
Buckley:
Oh.
Baker:
Helper and then he left…he left.
He got a job in Tuolumne I think or something and he quickly left me and
come up in Tuolumne I think. I don’t
know what he did. I had about four or
five firemen while I was down there out in Cooper town helping. (___) (___).
Buckley:
Well let’s skip back now that time we’ll say between 1940 and 1950. How many trains were being run a day in the
Sierra then?
Baker:
Well…how many trains? At that
time, they had a train out of Oakdale come up here and go to Sonora and we had
a train crew out of here that used to go out of here in the morning. They come up and then they’d someone and we’d
go on through. That’s the same outfit
that I was sure to hear.
Buckley:
And they just went to Tuolumne and back?
Baker:
They went up to Tuolumne and back, yeah that’s right, and then we helped
them over the hill at Chinese Hill.
Buckley: I see.
Baker:
That’s right.
Buckley: Were you the engineer or
fireman?
Baker:
Well they…Bill McCollum was firing for Swanson
at that time and Noah already had one of the name of…
Buckley: (___).
Baker:
He’d been here a long time. They
were all up in the…could’ve took the (___) and
none of them would take it and Miller he should’ve took it. He wouldn’t take it and so I was in the shop
at that time. Taylor was here running
the thing and I was working in the shop and then Miller he got sick. He passed out and Bill McCollum went down to
Oakdale to run that job down there and I took…I was a (___)
firemen. I went firing for
Swanson out of here.
Buckley:
I see.
Baker: I fired for Swanson out of here
‘til he took his pension. When he took
his pension, I got his job and Joe Francis come on
firing for me.
Buckley:
I see. Joe Francis fired for you
on this run up here?
Baker:
Yeah that’s right.
Buckley:
And Bill McCollum ran the Oakdale run?
Baker:
That’s right.
Buckley: And who was his fireman?
Baker:
Well his…I was up tell you…
Buckley:
Tony Dawson
Baker:
Tom Shirley.
Buckley:
Oh Shirley.
Baker:
Tom Shirley was an old timer here.
He was here a long time. He fired
a passenger train up out of Tuolumne for (___) before
that he night watched up in Jimtown. He
usually go in 19…oh in 1916 or ’17 somewhere around
there.
Buckley:
How about Joe Cavenaro? What was he doing during this time?
Baker:
Joe Cavenaro run helper the biggest time apart (___) (___) and he went (___). He run out of here all the time, Joe
did.
Buckley: Up to Tuolumne?
Baker:
Up to Tuolumne. Well he just run helper. Used to…helper used to go to Cooper town and
come back and (___) fire Sonora with him and
he’d help the freight over the hill.
Buckley:
Oh. There were three engine crews
on at that time.
Baker:
There was two crews and a helper.
Buckley:
I see.
Baker:…at that time.
Buckley:
Which engines were used most of the time?
Baker:
Well they were using the 20 and they had the 22 I think. They used the 22 and the 18; they were using
18 at that time. Then they got the big
engine. They got the 34 and they had Earl on the job down there out of Oakdale (___) (___) (___) and then they got…after they had the
34, then they got the 36 and they had to put her down (___)
(___) and she…that’s when she was knocking us out of a helper, see, (___) the engine, see, and she knock us out of a
helper.
Buckley:
How about when they purchased number 38 in 1950s? Did that bump one of the crews off?
Baker:
Well all it did was bump off the helper and bombard me and Joe Caveneer. That’s why when they (___)
the helper off, I went down to Oakdale and fired for Joe McCollum, see,
but I wasn’t working or nothing. I was
starving to death and maybe working (___), but
Joe Caveneer he stayed here. Joe didn’t…he didn’t want to go, so he stayed
around and worked out in the shop they have and (___)
(___).
Buckley:
Then on the Tuolumne runner…the runner went to Tuolumne. Joe Francis was fireman and who was engineer?
Baker:
Well Joe was the only fire (___) for Joe
fired for (___) who fired for me.
Buckley: Oh I see.
Baker: Yeah.
Buckley:
How about Tony Dawson? When did
he come on?
Baker:
Well Tony Dawson never did no fire. He never was (___) on
fire.
Buckley:
Oh I see.
Baker:
He was (___) on the day his father six
and (___). He
run…they had a bulldozer there. He used
to clear off the sides of the track.
That’s how he (___).
Buckley:
Who were the two conductors on the two trains at that time?
Baker:
At that time? Well we were out of Oakdale and we had Al Geovaul out of Tuolumne.
Buckley:
And…
Baker:
And Mr. Holcom was on the…the Angels branch
for a while. He got
killed right over here on the backtrack.
They brought a big freight train down, see, (___)
(___) and he cut off…the freight men cut off the train here. They were going down and pulling through the
passing tracks. See they had (___) on the passing tracks, see, and they had to go
down there and (___) them and come up and pull
them through. Well while this guy
was…the brakeman and the (___) was down there,
the car run away and he went out on the top of the caboose (___) and when they hit, it throwed him
down; pulled him off and they run over him and killed him.
Buckley:
When was this?
Baker:
Well that happened at the time they were building the Don Pedro.
Buckley:
Oh.
Baker:
But I wasn’t here; I was down in…I was down on that job out of Cooper
town helper at that time, but I’d worked with Buster over here when I was over
on the Angels branch.
Buckley:
Was number 38 being run out of Oakdale in the last years let’s say 1954
when they got the diesels?
Baker: Well she was running when they
got the diesels. I pulled her out,
see.
Buckley:
Well how’d they…if number 38 ran from let’s say from Oakdale to…
Baker: 48?
Buckley:
38.
Baker:
Oh that’s…38 that’s was that big engine.
Buckley: Yeah.
Baker:
Yeah I don’t…they didn’t use it…yeah I guess they did use it. That’s the only place that they did use ‘em I think. (___) (___) down
there. I never
did…I fired a couple of those (___) (___).
Buckley:
Was there a Wyatt store at that time
where they could turn the engines around?
Baker:
Yeah there was, that’ right, used to have a Wyatt up in Sonora.
Buckley:
That was a few years ago then?
Baker: Yeah they used to have a Wyatt;
that was all boxcar and it was safe and boxcars, but that was all lumber yard
and loading docks and there was a safe way in now that you ride out and come
back and back then on the (___) (___) that come
in right on the (___) (___) (___).
Buckley:
How they turned number 38 around?
I don’t think it could fit on the turntable.
Baker:
38?
Buckley:
That’s the big one.
Baker:
Oh 38; how’d they turn it around?
I forget (___).
Buckley:
Kind of long for the turntable.
Baker:
Oh yeah she was long. My gosh I don’t think they turned it around. My gosh I don’t
know. I wasn’t around…I was never (___) that much.
At that time they (___) biggest part of
the time, they had around Oakdale, see, and when they used to bring her in, they used to run her last train across the tin cable by mistake.
Buckley:
When your diesels came on…
Baker:
(___) (___) they put her…and that’s when
they want to…I think when they wanted to work over in the shop, they took the tender off, see, and shoved her in that way, see, if I
ain’t mistaken because I think she was too long for that turntable and I might
be wrong there too it’s been so long ago.
Buckley:
Yeah I know. When the diesels
came in 1955, what was a train…the schedule of a train then? How many trains were there?
Baker:
Well they had a train out of Oakdale and they had a train out of here
and we used to go up and Joe Francis was firing (___)
(___) (___) used to go to Tuolumne and go back and then they’d help them
over the hill at that time and then they pulled the job off and that put me and
Joe Francis out of a job, see.
Buckley:
And the diesels came?
Baker:
That’s right.
Buckley:
And who is was it engine crew on the diesels then?
Baker:
Well Bill McCollum and Shirley.
Buckley:
And did Shirley have seniority over you then?
Baker:
Yeah he was (___). He…
Buckley:
Oh I see.
Baker:
I had seniority over your brother, see.
Buckley:
Oh.
Baker:
But he could always take a job if he wanted…he’s off running and he
could (___) me.
That’s why good jobs like night job burning right away, he wouldn’t take
a job like that, see, he’d shoved it off on me and I had to…next (___) I had to take it and if he didn’t want a job
that was up, he didn’t have to take it because if he didn’t want a job that was
up there, he didn’t have to take it.
Buckley: Would you finally replace him as
firemen on the diesels?
Baker:
After when he died, yes.
Buckley:
How long was that after they got him?
Baker: Oh it was quite a while. I was (___)…I
was…what was it seven or eight…darn near ten years. He worked…I think…I guess it was around about
seven years I was in the shop before he took the pension.
Buckley:
Now he…
Baker:
He didn’t take the pension. He
got sick and died.
Buckley:
That was 1962?
Baker:
Oh it was before that, but I was down
there five years, see. I was down there
five years from that job firing for McCollum, see.
Buckley:
On the diesels?
Baker:
Yeah, of course running his team engines up here. I come up here (___) steam
engine.
Buckley:
What year did you retire from the railroad?
Baker:
I retired in 1961; lasted in 1961.
Buckley:
Who retired you first; you or Bill McCollum?
Baker:
I retired before he did. Bill
wouldn’t (___) to retire.
Buckley:
Oh.
Baker:
He tried to talk me out of it and I didn’t like it because we was
working 12 hours and an hour to come home, see, and an hour to go down and work
about 14 hours a day.
Buckley:
Would you think about driving to Oakdale every day?
Baker:
Oh yeah I didn’t like that. Some
nights we’d get through at 11 o’clock.
Then I’d come over here and it’s an hour to come up. It heats up at 12 o’clock and I’d get up in
the morning again, go down, start in ready to go down, and I didn’t like it. At
first we had lots of work to do down there; those days with lots of…and a lot
more than we got now. The Lime
Quarry…it’s just (___) the Lime Kiln (___) and go to Tuolumne and
get seven or eight moves out of Tuolumne or we get eight…
Buckley: Who took your place when you
retired?
Baker:
When I retired? They called Joe Francis back.
Buckley:
And you never got a chance to run the diesels in?
Baker:
Oh yes I run the diesels in that five pm. I used to work in the shop. They had the diesels, I worked in the shop
and whenever McCollum took his two weeks’ vacation or Shirley took his
vacation, I used to go down to leap.
Buckley:
And you could be…like if McCollum took two weeks off and you could be
beat Shirley, couldn’t (___) be the engineer?
Baker: Yeah that’s right, yeah,
yeah.
Buckley:
And was Al Marino the conductor during this time?
Baker:
No, Ed Weaver was conductor. Al
Marino was (___).
Buckley:
Did Louie Ann (___) (___)?
Baker:
Well before Louie went down there and Mike Colors
was only one of them and the next one was Al Marino Mike Colors were raking for Ben
Weaver. Then afterwards, Marion got to be conductor and Mike Colors and Louie Ann (___)
come down.
Buckley:
I see.
Baker:
Yeah but then I went down and I rode up with…(___) and I
rode it together with (___) turns a right.
Buckley:
And how much later did McCollum retire after you did?
Baker:
Well about three or four months after I retired, he had a heart
attack. He had a heart attack and he was
(___) and…but he got a feeling better, he went
back to work.
Buckley: Oh.
Baker:
Yeah he didn’t want to quite. He
was over the 65 too and then he had another one and then the doctor told him he
better quite, so then he quite, took his pension.
Buckley:
And then Tony Dawson came out as firemen?
Baker:
Was it Tony Dawson could help me out?
Buckley:
Yeah I think he was firemen. I’m
pretty sure.
Baker:
(___) did he?
Buckley:
About 1963 or ’64.
Baker:
Well he might’ve been. After I
left, I didn’t keep track of who was on there, see. He might’ve been, but I don’t think he ever
run diesel.
Buckley:
Oh.
Baker:
Because I think Joe Francis got it.
He’s been on there ever since.
Buckley:
Uh-huh.
Baker:
Yeah.
Buckley:
Ok let’s talk about the excursion trains let’s say from the 1940 to when
you retired. Were they very popular
then?
Baker: Oh yeah we used to have a lot of
excursions.
Buckley:
They mostly used charters where organizations to charter the whole
train?
Baker:
Well no (___) (___) (___) well some of
them were chartered. Yeah, that’s right,
some of them were chartered, but everybody could ride them if they wanted to
ride them, see. We used to have quite a (___). You can
see (___) (___) (___) (___).
Buckley: Yes, sir.
Baker:
A lot of these. You see now there’s one there, see? There’s one.
That was loaded, see, there’s a car up here, and (___) quite bit of…there’s quite a few (___).
Buckley:
Were you there in 1963? That day
when number 28 tipped over down here?
Baker: No.
Buckley:
Went off the tracks.
Baker:
Well that’s when Joe Francis was running there. No I wasn’t around. I didn’t even go up to see it.
Buckley:
Oh.
Baker:
See, he picked up a point coming down backing out.
Buckley:
And let’s talk about the movies for a while. What are some of the first movie trains that
you worked on?
Baker:
Oh I fired a lot of them, but I was (___)…there’s
so many of them, I can’t remember them all, so there used to be a lot of
them. But I’ll
never forget the one when Taylor was here, we had to…they had a movie there of
the…of Edison when used to be…when the first telegraph come in…
Buckley:
Yes.
Baker: …well they had us up here at the
depot I was firing for. I think I was
firing (___) (___) for them and I know I was
firing for Bill McCollum or some of them might’ve (___)
(___) and they had the (___). They were whistling for (___) you know and dots and (___)
and all that (___) got pretty bad (___) and stop that, but I was always a lot of plaid.
Buckley: Ok I’m going to go to the other
side of the tape now.